Schaller tuner problem

[Wrighty]

Hi all

I have come across a problem with the tuners on my Furch G23 tonight when changing strings.

I purchased the guitar used (it’s a 2016 guitar) but in nearly new condition and have changed strings 4 - 5 times. I had noticed that a couple of the tuners were not smooth to operate but were functional - I assumed they needed some lube or were just tight.

Tonight the top E tuner got tighter and tighter as I turned it and eventually made a clicking noise and stopped turning the string completely (like something had snapped inside)

I have never experienced this with my other 2 Furch guitars with the same tuners so was taken aback.

Has anybody experienced something similar with these tuners? (M6 I believe)

I will have to replace this one but have also notices the D string is also less than smooth so this might also be on it’s way out.

Thanks in advance.

Wrighty

[Wade Hampton]

Wrighty, I have experienced what you've described but it's been with Grover tuners, not Schallers, That said, a couple of years back I noticed that a couple of the Schaller M6 mini tuners that were original equipment on my 1989 000-42 were starting to click and get less accurate. I didn't experience the failure you did, but that might be because I didn't wait around - I got another set of identical M6 minis and replaced the entire set, my logic being that if two of the tuners were starting to go, the rest might eventually follow.

But that guitar and those tuners have received 30 years of heavy use, which your 2016 guitar obviously hasn't. So it sounds as though you have a defective set of tuners, or at least a couple of bad tuners.

If you bought the guitar new you should contact either the dealer who sold it to you or (what might be faster) the Furch guitar company itself.

If you bought the guitar used, in your position I would simply replace the entire set for the reason I mentioned above.

Schaller went through a period of poor quality control that lasted about fifteen years, from the late 1980's through about the mid-2000's. But they've since regained their high QC standards, or at least I thought they had.

Talk to the dealer who sold the guitar to you and to Furch, see what they say. Your friendly local guitar repair shop might have a couple of the correct replacement tuners in one of its parts boxes, too, so check that angle, as well.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[archerscreek]

I have Schaller Grand Tune tuners on a Martin Custom Shop guitar that's less than a year old. Mine haven't seized, but frankly they feel like cheap, sloppy junk. The chrome buttons come loose. One button has fallen off multiple times. And the plating has sharp bits protruding in spots. Pure junk.

[jim1960]

Tuners are mechanical devices and sometimes mechanical devices will fail. There's no way to guarantee they won't fail. Since you bought the guitar used, you likely don't have a warranty and neither the dealer or Furch are obligated to do anything for you, but asking doesn't hurt and you never know what they might say. Luckily tuners aren't very expensive so even if you have to bear the cost, it won't be too bad.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Wrighty, I have experienced what you've described but it's been with Grover tuners, not Schallers, That said, a couple of years back I noticed that a couple of the Schaller M6 mini tuners that were original equipment on my 1989 000-42 were starting to click and get less accurate. I didn't experience the failure you did, but that might be because I didn't wait around - I got another set of identical M6 minis and replaced the entire set, my logic being that if two of the tuners were starting to go, the rest might eventually follow.

But that guitar and those tuners have received 30 years of heavy use, which your 2016 guitar obviously hasn't. So it sounds as though you have a defective set of tuners, or at least a couple of bad tuners.

If you bought the guitar new you should contact either the dealer who sold it to you or (what might be faster) the Furch guitar company itself.

If you bought the guitar used, in your position I would simply replace the entire set for the reason I mentioned above.

Schaller went through a period of poor quality control that lasted about fifteen years, from the late 1980's through about the mid-2000's. But they've since regained their high QC standards, or at least I thought they had.

Talk to the dealer who sold the guitar to you and to Furch, see what they say. Your friendly local guitar repair shop might have a couple of the correct replacement tuners in one of its parts boxes, too, so check that angle, as well.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

Many thanks Wade - I have mailed Furch but am also looking a replacing all 6.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by archerscreek

I have Schaller Grand Tune tuners on a Martin Custom Shop guitar that's less than a year old. Mine haven't seized, but frankly they feel like cheap, sloppy junk. The chrome buttons come loose. One button has fallen off multiple times. And the plating has sharp bits protruding in spots. Pure junk.

Sorry to hear you’re having problems with your GrandTunes. I have a set on my D-41 and they are the best tuners I’ve ever had. They typically get a lot of love here on AGF, too. Have you called Martin CS? I’ve always found them helpful and responsive.

[Larry Mal]

It would also be worth contacting Schaller themselves, they might ask you to send in the tuner for replacement under warranty.

I had to do that with Kluson and I could not have been more pleased with their responsiveness and prompt replacement.

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by archerscreek

I have Schaller Grand Tune tuners on a Martin Custom Shop guitar that's less than a year old. Mine haven't seized, but frankly they feel like cheap, sloppy junk. The chrome buttons come loose. One button has fallen off multiple times. And the plating has sharp bits protruding in spots. Pure junk.

I have an issue on a brand new martin with these grand tunes. If you hit the low e pretty forcefully, the sympathetic frequencies cause the tuners to rattle. Frankly, I would have expected better on a brand new guitar.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

…Has anybody experienced something similar with these tuners? (M6 I believe)

Hi Wrighty

In 2006 I visited James Olson's shop there was a box (about a foot square and 8" tall) full of removed tuner machines beneath one bench in his shop. They were Schaller tuners. There were so many defective ones over the years he had switched to Gotoh tuners for his guitars.

Sure enough when one of the Schaller's failed (in the middle of a gig) on my Olson, I ordered a set of Gotoh with the Olson logo on them (from James).

I hadn't even thought about it till I saw your post. I was fortunate to have time at the gig I was at to be able to drive home and get one of my other guitars to finish the gig, but the tuner without warning just went belly-up.

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by archerscreek

I have Schaller Grand Tune tuners on a Martin Custom Shop guitar that's less than a year old. Mine haven't seized, but frankly they feel like cheap, sloppy junk. The chrome buttons come loose. One button has fallen off multiple times. And the plating has sharp bits protruding in spots. Pure junk.

My experience with the Schaller Grands has been completely the opposite on three flamencos and a classical that I installed them on. That's why I chose them over the Sloans.

But I've had several brands of tuners have issues over the years. I mostly just chuck it all up to the luck of the draw and tend not to let it affect my feeling towards a brand unless it becomes a pattern.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

...I have come across a problem with the tuners on my Furch G23 tonight when changing strings. I purchased the guitar used (it’s a 2016 guitar)

Because emailing and posting and waiting and.... (for me) takes longer than jumping on line and ordering (or driving down to the local guitar shop when possible) a new set of tuning machines and a set of strings - I would consider it maintenance and up keep and change them out. Call (not email) Schaller and get a set shipped to you and get what you need to swap them out. I wouldn't trust that the others aren't part of a bad set or low-quality counterfeit.
Of course don't call Martin - they didn't make the guitar. I wouldn't call Furch as you bought it used. Edited as I see you're in the UK not U.S.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Because emailing and posting and waiting and.... (for me) takes longer than jumping on line and ordering (or driving down to the local guitar shop when possible) a new set of tuning machines and a set of strings - I would consider it maintenance and up keep and change them out. Call (not email) Schaller and get a set shipped to you and get what you need to swap them out. I wouldn't trust that the others aren't part of a bad set or low-quality counterfeit.
Of course don't call Martin - they didn't make the guitar. I wouldn't call Furch as you bought it used. Edited as I see you're in the UK not U.S.

Don’t see where anyone told the OP to call Martin. I suggested to another poster who is having Schaller tuner problems with his CS Martin to contact customer service.

[Dustinfurlow]

Sorry for the bad experience with the M6. Those are my favorite tuners for gigging cause they’re quick but pretty smooth. Gotoh 510s are obviously great too.

FWIW I remember years ago at a gig one of the butter bean Grover tuners went out on my Martin and I was pretty frustrated, I did however contact StewMac and they sent me a single for maybe 10 bucks or so. It might prove worthwhile to contact them for a single M6 as it’s a commonly stocked tuner. Or you could check eBay or reverb for singles, I’ve seen them multiple times when ordering replacements for my Larrivees over the years.

Hope this helps.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Because emailing and posting and waiting and.... (for me) takes longer than jumping on line and ordering (or driving down to the local guitar shop when possible) a new set of tuning machines and a set of strings - I would consider it maintenance and up keep and change them out. Call (not email) Schaller and get a set shipped to you and get what you need to swap them out. I wouldn't trust that the others aren't part of a bad set or low-quality counterfeit.
Of course don't call Martin - they didn't make the guitar. I wouldn't call Furch as you bought it used. Edited as I see you're in the UK not U.S.

Agree - today I did just that and ordered a brand new full set of 6 and will replace them all and be done with it.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Wrighty

In 2006 I visited James Olson's shop there was a box (about a foot square and 8" tall) full of removed tuner machines beneath one bench in his shop. They were Schaller tuners. There were so many defective ones over the years he had switched to Gotoh tuners for his guitars.

Sure enough when one of the Schaller's failed (in the middle of a gig) on my Olson, I ordered a set of Gotoh with the Olson logo on them (from James).

I hadn't even thought about it till I saw your post. I was fortunate to have time at the gig I was at to be able to drive home and get one of my other guitars to finish the gig, but the tuner without warning just went belly-up.

Very interesting - I have never had tuner problems before on any decent guitar so was just intrigued as to why this was happening on several and whether it might have been anything the previous owner had done to contribute to them seizing..