Is it possible to be a good player,

[sloar]

And know nothing about music? I’ve been playing for about 18 months and I’m pleased with my progress. My fingerpicking has improved and I find its easier to learn more songs. I do know learning songs has never been easier since YouTube, but am I being held back in my progress from being totally ignorant about not being able to read music, tabs or anything else that applies to playing an instrument? I know my chords, but that’s about it. I’ve been more worried about learning songs than actually learning guitar. If so where should I start my education and how in-depth should I go? I’m never going to be in a band, I will forever be a couch player. Thanks

[jseth]

Short answer? Sure... it's very possible to not delve into any sort of theory or reading notation (tab) and be a good player... I assume when you say "know nothing", you're referring to music theory and such...

Certainly, knowing a bit about "why it works" and how to read chord charts will make it easier for you to learn more songs and also to connect with other players, should the occasion arise, but it's not necessary.

I consider myself an advanced player, a professional... and I don't read tab, not one bit, and my sightreading notation (you know, the little golf clubs on the lines?) is about at second grade level... neither of those things hinder me in the slightest. I DO know a good deal of theory and harmony, and that has been a boon for my songwriting as well as my overall level of play.

Really depends upon what YOU want from music and the guitar and your playing... until you make some decision about "going down the rabbit hole" of reading tab or notation and learning more about theory in a structured manner, just keep learning more chords and different chord forms/inversions (ways to play the same chord in different places on the fretboard), keep learning new songs and having fun with it!

That is, after all, the point of the whole thing!

[mr. beaumont]

Nope.

Good players know the instrument, be it "academically " or "intuitively." The best players I've met all know it both ways.

[DukeX]

Don't worry too much about it at this point. As you continue on your guitar journey you will naturally become more interested in scales, how chords are built on the notes in a scale, how chords fit into keys, etc.

[raysachs]

You do know how to read tab, you just haven't tried yet. It's there for people who can't read music and it doesn't impart as much information as sheet music, but it shows you where to put your fingers on the frets, and tries to give a bit of information about when to slide or hammer on. Man, if I could figure it out, anyone can figure it out.

And, yeah, some people can become really good players without much actual knowledge, but they've absorbed a lot just by playing and they just have a lot of talent. Other people can get pretty good with a lot of education and not much talent. But most of the very best players have a healthy mix of both.

I'd say keep doing what you enjoy. If you hit a road-block, look into learning what you need to in order to get past it. Over time you'll pick up a lot and you'll have fun in the mean time. And if your goals call for more, go get educated...

-Ray

[rick-slo]

Technique and ear development is most of it for most people. Therefore listening to and working on playing actual tunes or songs is the gist of becoming a good guitar player.

Technique in part is learning your chords shapes and learning to hear intervals when playing scales and chords.

Some basic theory and being able to read tabs (and standard notation) makes a various music more readily available to learn off of.

[Pitar]

If you can play music without any visual aids then you've answered your own question.

Once you know the fretboard by ear and have the skills to play a melody of your own making I do not see the benefit sight reading a score brings to it.

Once you begin scoring your own stuff then it becomes a benefit to have an understanding of the written musical language. Or, you can get one of those tabbing/scoring applications like Tux Guitar and it takes the work out of it for you. You will learn from it as well as you score your stuff.

Not hawking the application. I used it for a bit until I realized I wasn't all that much into scoring.

http://www.tuxguitar.com.ar/

[rpguitar]

Originally Posted by sloar

I know my chords, but that’s about it.

Knowing how to read written music notation, be it standard or tablature, is not the same as understanding music.

You know some chords. But I'm betting that if a Bm7b5 or a C#dim shows up on a song chart, you may not know what to do. If you happen to know those chords, great, let's make it an A13 or a Bb69. I guarantee there are many you don't know, and they are not random, weird, etc., even if they don't often appear in the average 3 chord blues or folk song.

The more music you want to play, the greater the chances of encountering these (and many others). Are you content with that? Perhaps so, which is fine. But it won't make you a "good" player to other good players.

If you commit to learning the basics of notes and harmony, you'll be able to piece these together without a computer or a book. Again, it's not the same as reading music notation, which is another type of skill. It's the intellectual language of music, and knowing that benefits any musician on any instrument.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by sloar

And know nothing about music? I’ve been playing for about 18 months and I’m pleased with my progress. My fingerpicking has improved and I find its easier to learn more songs. I do know learning songs has never been easier since YouTube, but am I being held back in my progress from being totally ignorant about not being able to read music, tabs or anything else that applies to playing an instrument? I know my chords, but that’s about it. I’ve been more worried about learning songs than actually learning guitar. If so where should I start my education and how in-depth should I go? I’m never going to be in a band, I will forever be a couch player. Thanks

You know a lot more than "nothing".

Learning songs is actually the best way to learn about music, although of course it's good to be curious about the stuff you don't know - which (aside from more advanced techniques) is essentially various ways of representing or describing the sounds you know how to make.

So, notation and tab are ways of representing sounds on paper (or screen). The purpose is to help you play and learn a piece of music, so you don't have to hold it all in your head (or ear) while learning it.
Theory is about naming those sounds, which helps you talk about what you're doing, and understand other musicians when they talk about music.
E.g., if you know what an "E minor" chord is, you already know a bit of theory (the chord name is theory jargon). You just (probably) don't know why it's called that, or what notes it contains. But then if you know your guitar is tuned EADGBE, that's more theory jargon, and you could probably work out the notes in the E minor chord (and other chords) if you wanted to.

You can certainly be a good player without knowing any more than that kind of thing. That's because playing well is a mixture of technique and ear. Finger practice and listening practice. That's assuming you just want to play other people's music as well as you can - you don't want to improvise or compose.

Being a good "musician" is something else. It does mean some kind of greater understanding about how music works. That's especially important if you do want to improvise or compose. You have to understand how songs are put together. Again, you can learn that just by taking apart those songs you already know - studying the details, thinking about how the chords go together, how the melody works with the chords (if you're singing or playing the melody).
Naturally some kind of theory study will help, but it's really important to start from what you know: the notes, chords and songs you're already familiar with. Just get more familiar with them. if and when you read any theory, try to connect it with the songs you know.
My advice is: be curious about what you don't know, but don't worry about it. Especially if you're travelling no further than your couch.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by sloar

And know nothing about music? ... I’m never going to be in a band, I will forever be a couch player. Thanks

Learn as little or as much as you want about music. It's entirely your decision and don't let others shame you in any regard. It's possible to be very good and know nothing about music just as it's possible to know everything about music and not be good at all.

If theory interests you, there are all sorts of things to learn. Some of them will be interesting intellectually, whether any of it makes you a better player is up to how / if you apply it.

Personally, I avoided theory at the start because far too many teachers / workshops tried to teach me theory well before I could play a song on my own. I'd like to castigate those for their efforts. They sucked all the living soul and enjoyment out of learning.

After I'd been playing for about five years, I attended a master guitar workshop. My lack of theoretical knowledge really limited me so I decided to embrace learning theory and now I soak it up with enthusiasm.

How I described it to my wife is that a conversation is happening among my muso friends and up to know I've not been able to understand that conversation, much less participate in it. Now that I much better understand such things as modes (just to pick one example), I can understand and even contribute to such conversations from time to time.

Part of the problem with introducing theory too early is the goal is often to vague and long term. "It will make you a better player in the long run", that sort of thing.

The goal for the theory you learn should be more specific and short term. But again, only if that interests you.

[TBman]

Try to learn to read tabs and get an understanding of the basics of notation. Doing this will expand what you can learn to play.

Be realistic about it though. Find a simple song that you know, get the tab/notation for it and a beginner's book about guitar music and see how much you can fit together. There will always be someone here that can answer whatever question you might have.

[sloar]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice, eventually I think I will dive further into the theory and music reading part. I think it would be amazing to piece my own music together. My job requires a lot of updating my education and training so I’m usually tied up with that and use my guitar to relax and forget about all the book work I have. 6 more years until I leave the fire department then I think I’ll be ready to really learn.

[Playguitar]

Hi Sloar, Even just learning some very simple basic music theory will make learning music and playing with others easier. It won't take very much time to get the basics.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by DukeX

Don't worry too much about it at this point. As you continue on your guitar journey you will naturally become more interested in scales, how chords are built on the notes in a scale, how chords fit into keys, etc.

I guess that this is your best answer.

I suppose I played guitar in musical ignorance for a good 15 years or so - I know my chord shapes, and their relationships (and long as they were I,IV & V, and maybe a II or IIm).

I only ever soloed in minor pentatonic.

Then I decided that I wanted to play some "American song book" stuff and discovered Harmonising of the Scale - something like this :



Like most, I was taught it in C and was so fascinated that I had to work it out for every key, major and minor, discovering the beauty of the "maths" within music (or vice versa).

Once you have grasped this - you realise that essentially, when you are working our chord progressions etc., there are only seven chords most likely, but that they can be changed from major to minor (or vice versa) and/or 7th chord which is a half diminished( but you only need to know the shape) which can be the "secret code".

And I sussed all that with no tadpoles on telephone lines or tablature (which I hate).

[stanron]

The very best way to learn music theory is to learn it as you learn to read notation as you start to learn to play your instrument. Classical piano, violin, flute etc in the UK works like this.

The larger part of basic music theory is to do with implementing music notation so this makes perfect sense.

However, note that I said that this was the best way to learn music theory. I am not convinced that this is the best way to learn to play music. That is a can of wriggly worms you may open if you wish.

To the self educated western guitarist who started playing by trying to imitate 'sounds' that he thought were cool, music theory can become a great hidden treasure trove of esoteric cabalistic knowledge, a kind of alternative to Robert Johnson's midnight crossroad deal, the acquisition of which will make him a better player. It wont.

Music theory puts into words stuff a musician experiences when playing music. It gives a vocabulary to musical phenomenon. It means you can talk about it to those other people who have learned the same words.

The more music you have played, the more likely you are to have come across the stuff that music theory covers. So if you started to learn guitar without any learning theory don't worry about that. Just play music.

If you want to learn to read notation, and there are advantages in that, go ahead and search online or get a classical guitar primer or a teacher. That will teach you the basics. All the complicated stuff, that gets taught in university courses in so called 'popular music' can be left for later. It's good if you want to play 'modern' jazz but not if you want to play folk, rock or blues.

Of course you could just try the crossroads.