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Old 10-10-2019, 07:30 AM
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Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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Default Rewriting Other's Songs

I'm throwing this question out for discussion.

Is it okay to rewrite other's songs or blasphemy?


I'm into early jazz band songs, show tunes, blues and folk songs. My research shows many variations in words and music.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:47 AM
ohiopicker ohiopicker is offline
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My interest in folk songs has led me to the belief that songs have an “organic” and elastic quality. Folk and blues demonstrate that some songs have many renditions, for many reasons. Some songs borrow lyrics and melody from others.

For the purpose of performing, I sometimes modify a song. I may remove verses if the song is too long. I may remove verses that are potentially offensive. I may strip down the chord structure to make the song easier to perform, ad long as it does not turn it into a different song.

So no, I don’t think it is neccessarily wrong. Is it possible to go too far? You bet!
YouTube is full of examples. It is also full of examples of the creativity of musicians in this regard.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:51 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Early jazz, blues, folk, a very organic evolving quality to that stuff. So I'd say yeah, it can be carried too far obviously, but a little ebb and flow and change is part of keeping some of that music alive.

Jazz, in particular, look at the harmonic structure of the tunes over time...very interesting...

As for "show tunes" though, that seems like a bad place for rewrites...
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:24 AM
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I don't think it's OK to play commercially, unless it's clearly being used for satirical purposes or something similar.

I have a small conundrum with a couple of old Stones tunes I LOVE to play, but absolutely cannot bring myself to sing with my current level of consciousness in the wake of "me too" and just realizing that whatever the social norms were at the time (which the Stones were no doubt intent on busting up - which I generally favored), the lyrics to these songs just aren't OK today. And if they're OK for some folks, they're not for me. So even in the privacy of my own home, I can't bring myself to sing them.

I'm talking about "Stray Cat Blues", which is about having sex with a 15 year old girl, and "Under My Thumb", which is just generally misogynistic as hell. I can handle other songs like "Some Girls", because it seems pretty obviously satirical to me and not a serious knock on women - almost more of a self-deprecating look at Rock Star lives, but I can't manage those two tunes. I've tried changing the lyrics to Stray Cat, but it just doesn't work. So now I just occasionally play them as instrumentals. But a couple of GREAT songs lost to me by the changing (for the better IMHO) morals of our times... Oh well...

-Ray
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:36 AM
HAPPYDAN HAPPYDAN is offline
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Absolutely - I do it all the time, in the privacy of my own home. Add a verse, change some words, a jazz song becomes a folk song, a rock song becomes a country song. If you look, there are many examples of well known artists doing this very thing. But, that being said, there will always be the "puritans" who will shout blasphemy. Music is art, and the relevance is in the eye (ear?) of the beholder.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:41 AM
J. Danner J. Danner is offline
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Guy Clark changed things up when he recorded Townes Van Zandt's "To Live Is to Fly" but they were best friends so I doubt Townes minded.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly View Post
I'm throwing this question out for discussion.

Is it okay to rewrite other's songs or blasphemy?


I'm into early jazz band songs, show tunes, blues and folk songs. My research shows many variations in words and music.
Hi Mr. J...

I've rearranged other's songs, and in a couple instances changed a word or two (on purpose). I've even done parody versions of famous tunes for a birthday party.

There is debate on 'parody', and other forms of changing lyrics as to whether it violates or infringes copyright…especially for recording songs.

Ricky Skaggs has often changed lyrics over the decades. When asked if artists protest, he responded "Only once." He went on to explain…a lot of Ricky's 'hits' included altered lyrics which payed substantial royalty checks to the authors who had lyrics altered.

He shared about this at a workshop I attended where he was being interviewed and took questions from the audience.




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Old 10-10-2019, 09:43 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Sometimes I feel like songwriters have quit before they were really done, so I'll at least take a crack at improving things if I want to play the song live.

Example: "When Sunny Gets Blue." As written, it goes...

When Sunny gets blue
Her eyes get gray and cloudy
Then the rain begins to fall
Pitter patter, pitter patter
Love is gone so what can matter
No sweet lovin' man comes to call

When Sunny gets blue
She breathes a sigh of sadness
Like the wind that stirs the trees
Wind that sets the leaves to swayin'
Like some violins are playin'
Weird and haunting melodies

People used to love to
Hear her laugh, see her smile
That's how she got her name
Since that sad affair
She's lost her smile
Changed her style
Somehow she's not the same

But mem'ries will fade
And pretty dreams will rise up
Where her other dreams fell through
Hurry, new love, hurry here
To kiss away each lonely tear
And hold her near when Sunny gets blue


But I don't like how the third verse departs from the "weather" conceit. The whole "dreams" thing is just dumb, a contextual outlier. And other bits of it just don't scan well for me, or a word seems odd. The bits I've changed are bolded.

When Sunny gets blue
Her eyes get gray and cloudy
Then the rain begins to fall
Pitter patter, pitter patter
Love is gone so nothin' matters
When no lover comes to call


When Sunny gets blue
She breathes a sigh of sadness
Like the wind that stirs the trees
Wind that sets the leaves to swayin'
Like some violins are playin'
Strange and haunting melodies

People used to love to
Hear her laugh, see her smile
That's how Sunny got her name
Since that sad affair
She's lost her smile
Changed her style
Somehow Sunny's not the same

But clouds drift away
And raindrops, they will dry up
When the sun comes shining through

Hurry new love, hurry here
Kiss away each lonely tear
And hold her near when Sunny gets blue


I've never had anyone comment on it one way or the other, so maybe I'm just putting in needless effort. Or maybe nobody's paying much attention.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:51 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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The one "on my desk" right now is the English lyrics for Jobim's "Desafinado." One of the most gorgeous melodies ever, and the "lovers out of tune" idea is great, but the words aren't Hendricks' best work by a long shot.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:55 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Sometimes I feel like songwriters have quit before they were really done, so I'll at least take a crack at improving things if I want to play the song live.

Example: "When Sunny Gets Blue." As written, it goes...

When Sunny gets blue
Her eyes get gray and cloudy
Then the rain begins to fall
Pitter patter, pitter patter
Love is gone so what can matter
No sweet lovin' man comes to call

When Sunny gets blue
She breathes a sigh of sadness
Like the wind that stirs the trees
Wind that sets the leaves to swayin'
Like some violins are playin'
Weird and haunting melodies

People used to love to
Hear her laugh, see her smile
That's how she got her name
Since that sad affair
She's lost her smile
Changed her style
Somehow she's not the same

But mem'ries will fade
And pretty dreams will rise up
Where her other dreams fell through
Hurry, new love, hurry here
To kiss away each lonely tear
And hold her near when Sunny gets blue


But I don't like how the third verse departs from the "weather" conceit. The whole "dreams" thing is just dumb, a contextual outlier. And other bits of it just don't scan well for me, or a word seems odd. The bits I've changed are bolded.

When Sunny gets blue
Her eyes get gray and cloudy
Then the rain begins to fall
Pitter patter, pitter patter
Love is gone so nothin' matters
When no lover comes to call


When Sunny gets blue
She breathes a sigh of sadness
Like the wind that stirs the trees
Wind that sets the leaves to swayin'
Like some violins are playin'
Strange and haunting melodies

People used to love to
Hear her laugh, see her smile
That's how Sunny got her name
Since that sad affair
She's lost her smile
Changed her style
Somehow Sunny's not the same

But clouds drift away
And raindrops, they will dry up
When the sun comes shining through

Hurry new love, hurry here
Kiss away each lonely tear
And hold her near when Sunny gets blue


I've never had anyone comment on it one way or the other, so maybe I'm just putting in needless effort. Or maybe nobody's paying much attention.
I rather like that. Doesn't change the tune at all, keeps the metaphor.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:17 AM
DaveKell DaveKell is offline
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Not long ago I previewed a song I wrote with my wife listening. The song was from the viewpoint of a recently saved "redneck" who wanted to hold onto some of his old ways. It's called No Cold Beer In Heaven. After I wrote the lyrics a perfectly suited melody came to me in an instant. Upon hearing it my wife said "you realize you just wrote new lyrics to Will The Circle Be Unbroken right?". I was shocked when I realized she was right and didn't know why it hadn't occurred to me, but the melody fit the lyrics perfectly.

I did a copyright search for Circle and learned it was in public domain and that a few notable derivatives had been recorded already. Based on that I wasn't concerned anymore about it. Besides that, the only people likely to hear it are at small open mics nearby and a weekly jam session, I mean no famous artists line up outside my door wanting to hear everything I've written. Interesting topic though.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:53 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
I rather like that. Doesn't change the tune at all, keeps the metaphor.
Speaking of changing the tune, if you listen to the classic versions (Tormé, Nat, Mathis) they all do the tune at the end differently, and the sheet music I've seen isn't like any of them. So I guess it's open season on that, like a classical cadenza.
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:10 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I have no concerns about changing lyrics, key, tempo or arrangements of songs.

Most of my material comes from American writers and I have changed words which are nonsensical to Brits, and I have rewritten lyrics and even added extra verses when the arrangement demands it.

While you are singing it it is "your" story", tell it how you wish, but always credit the original writer if you can.
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:20 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Most of my material comes from American writers and I have changed words which are nonsensical to Brits...
I wonder if Robbie Robertson has had second thoughts about that inadvertent vulgarism in "The Weight."
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:09 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I wonder if Robbie Robertson has had second thoughts about that inadvertent vulgarism in "The Weight."
So you're suggesting that they're definitely called "waist purses" over on that side of the pond?
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