Is a slope shoulder a Dread or Jumbo

[Phoenix75]

I know this is a daft question. But I've read articles that talk about slope shoulders in the context of advanced Jumbo's. I'm thinking about an Raj 126 similar I think to a j45. Is the volume similar to a dread but with a more balanced tonal spectrum with more emphasis on mid range Freq? Does a slope lend more comfort? I'm a big fan of ooo.

People here really speak highly of the raj126. A lot of praise for its tone and quality for its price? Underrated is commonly expressed...

[Daddyo]

I have a Larrivee Slope shoulder dread that is a 12 fret. It feels more comfortable than a D sized dread. Full but warm.

[Oldguy64]

In name, a slope shoulder is both.
Performance wise it’s a Dread.

[Tnfiddler]

My Bourgeois is a Slope D In model name, so I’d say yes. More comfortable when sitting and with Banjo Killer bracing, can hang with any dread.

[Dryfly]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

My Bourgeois is a Slope D In model name, so I’d say yes. More comfortable when sitting and with Banjo Killer bracing, can hang with any dread.

Same with my D-12

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Phoenix75

I know this is a daft question. But I've read articles that talk about slope shoulders in the context of advanced Jumbo's. I'm thinking about an Raj 126 similar I think to a j45. Is the volume similar to a dread but with a more balanced tonal spectrum with more emphasis on mid range Freq? Does a slope lend more comfort? I'm a big fan of ooo.

People here really speak highly of the raj126. A lot of praise for its tone and quality for its price? Underrated is commonly expressed...

Seeing as CF Martin ‘invented’ and designed both shapes, calling both ‘dreadnaught’, it’s already been decided close to 100 years ago.

The fact that Gibson copied Martin’s initial design giving it 14 frets means nothing.

A rose by any other name yadda, etc.

Howard Emerson

[John Arnold]

Gibsons are Jumbos, Martins are dreadnoughts. There is no such animal as a 'Gibson Advanced Dreadnought'.
While the shapes are roughly similar, the dimensions are quite different. The Gibson jumbo is wider in the lower bout, but has a shorter body length.
Gibson jumbos are mostly 14 fret (exception is the Hawaiian Roy Smeck), while the Martin slope is traditionally a 12 fret guitar only.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Phoenix75

I know this is a daft question. But I've read articles that talk about slope shoulders in the context of advanced Jumbo's. I'm thinking about an Raj 126 similar I think to a j45. Is the volume similar to a dread but with a more balanced tonal spectrum with more emphasis on mid range Freq? Does a slope lend more comfort? I'm a big fan of ooo.

People here really speak highly of the raj126. A lot of praise for its tone and quality for its price? Underrated is commonly expressed...

Hi, not a daft question at all, and this is somehing that so many folk get wrong, even here on this forum of guitarists, and EVEN on guitar maker's websites!

Basically, it is exactly as John Arnold says ..but :

Martin developed a very large guitar as far back as 1916. But it was as requested by the Ditson company as a combined Hawaiian/Spanish style guitar. It was known as the model 111 (extra large) and few were made between 1916 and 1921 and seven were made. (there were also four Model 222 - which had white bindng and "may" have been rosewood.

See : https://theguitarphile.com/1916-dits...al-number-175/

and more details here : http://www.vintagemartin.com/MartinDitson.html

Ditson went out of business in 1929, and Martin decided to make dreadnoughts branded as Martins in 1931. They made two "D1s" (hogs) and seven D2s (BRW).

In 1932 they changed the nomenclature to D18 and D28. Very few were made.

With the failure of the 14 fret "OM" guitar (1929-1933) Martin re-designed the dreadnought as a 14 fret rhythm guitar in 1934.

Gibson didn't make any flat-tops until 1926, but in 1934 they introduced the original "Jumbo" -one might assume that they did so to compete with the Martin dreadnought, (they also introduced a Hawaiian guitar with a Jumbo like body shape called the "Roy Smeck").

It might be suggested that the Jumbo had a similar "shoulder" profile as the original Martin 12 fret dread (I couldn't possibly comment!) .

So, there are two shapes for the genuine dreadnought.
The original 12 fret dreadnought - (also known as the S for "Standard" shape) and the 14 fret version wi the squared down shoulders.

Later, of course, Gibson attempted to copy the "square shoulder" design with the "bird" models - Hummingbird, Dove and the Epiphone Frontier.

So, generally speaking if the model number has a D in it - it's a Martin (D)readnought design, and if it has a "J" in it its a Gibson (J)umbo style. NOTE: Gibson also made a "Super" Jumbo" (SJ100 and SJ200) but for some reason dropped the S at some point.

This is me some tmie ago having a little rant about this.

[Tnfiddler]

I promise that I'm not trying to be obnoxious about this, but I think that here on AGF is the only place things like this are ever thought about. When I let those two "Flatpicking MONSTERS" play my Bourgeois at the festival a few weeks ago, at no time did they ever say, "Is this a Slope Shoulder?"! They just played it and an HD-28 back and forth. I'm sure they noticed it had rounded shoulders, but I don't think that's important to most people. Sounding good or great is the one thing I think most people notice.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

I promise that I'm not trying to be obnoxious about this, but I think that here on AGF is the only place things like this are ever thought about. When I let those two "Flatpicking MONSTERS" play my Bourgeois at the festival a few weeks ago, at no time did they ever say, "Is this a Slope Shoulder?"! They just played it and an HD-28 back and forth. I'm sure they noticed it had rounded shoulders, but I don't think that's important to most people. Sounding good or great is the one thing I think most people notice.

I disagree. When someone is discussing a guitar, they should be able to use the correct term, jumbo or dreadnought. If you own a jumbo, you should call it a jumbo and not a dreadnought. Just like if you own a corvette, you call it a sports car and not a sedan. Words are important.

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

I disagree. When someone is discussing a guitar, they should be able to use the correct term, jumbo or dreadnought. If you own a jumbo, you should call it a jumbo and not a dreadnought. Just like if you own a corvette, you call it a sports car and not a sedan. Words are important.

I agree on that and I think the majority of players can and do that. I just happen to be looking at Gibson's website and it looks as if they call their Slope Shoulder models, the "Round Shoulder Collections", so this just really throws it all out of whack for us!! I just call mine a Slope D Custom and my D-41 to make it simple.

[Wade Hampton]

A few years ago Gibson’s acoustic guitar website had models like the Hummingbird and Dove listed under “Square Shouldered Dreadnoughts” and models like the J-45 under “Round Shouldered Dreadnoughts.” Even though the J-45 is technically considered a jumbo, its body shape is clearly unlike that of the super jumbo SJ-200.

For all intents and purposes, the J-45 and its many variant models are dreadnoughts, which is why the terms “slope shouldered dreads” and “round shoulder dreadnoughts” have entered common usage. To insist on the official Gibson terminology, which Gibson itself has chosen to ignore at times, is more than a little bit pedantic.

Yes, a Gibson-style slope shouldered dreadnought differs in several dimensions from a Martin-style square shouldered dreadnought, which is why we have those different designations for those body styles. But both clearly have more in common with each other than either of them have a Gibson SJ-200.

Insisting that folks refer to J-45’s and similar guitars as “jumbos” is pointless, because that ship has SAILED, friend.


Wade Hampton Miller

[llew]

And then there's the J-200 and small jumbo's (SJ's) that several boutique builder make. The nomenclature from different builder's doesn't (if ever?) agree. To me there are square shoulder dreads (D-18/28, Hummingbird/Song Writer style guitars), slope shoulder dreads (J-15/35/45/50/SJ/AJ style guitars), small jumbos (SJ/MJ models from Collings, Bourgeois, and H&D) and super jumbos (J-200/Lowden O/Guild). We make not all call certain models by the same name but I believe we understand what's intended to be conveyed in the conversation.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

I disagree. When someone is discussing a guitar, they should be able to use the correct term, jumbo or dreadnought. Words are important.

Terms and words are important, but when coined by different companies, they don't always resolve the issue.

Martin makes both a square shoulder dreadnought, they have made slope shoulder dreads, and they make a jumbo. I'm wondering how close in specs the Gibson J-45 is to the Martin slope shoulder dread, as opposed to the Martin jumbo. Only point being there is more to it than seeing a "D" or "J"in front of the model number.

My go-to is a Santa Cruz Vintage Southerner, which is the SCGC take of the J-45, and they term it a slope shoulder dread. So I call that guitar a dread.

[PHJim]

Dreadnought (or dreadnaught) is Martin's term, yet other manufacturers have used it. In the fifties, the Levin/Goyas called theirs "Goliaths".