Chasing bluegrass/country sound (some bridge pin content included)

[TBman]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

FOR ME a lot of the tinkering motivates the practice. Don't anyone think for a second that I don't practice. I practice A LOT. Different styles. Different genres. Different instruments. A good portion of my income now comes from teaching private trumpet lessons. I am a musician first. But the tinkering thing... Just in my DNA (ask me about ski boots some time). Within the guitar itself I have certain basic expectations, balance being critical. And as I PRACTICE and listen critically I begin hearing things that I want to bring out and other things that I find annoying to my ears. But you know what? (At least for me) it's fun and I just share my exploits with any interested parties.

Its all part of your enjoyment of the hobby. Got it.

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Of course. The pick is important for the artriculation of the front of the note and how hard the strings are attacked based on any number of issues. I do a fair amount of pick testing with all of my guitars and tests.

As to those who say to listen and practice. Of course. IN THE PROCESS OF PRACTICING I discover things that I may not have previously heard. But here's the thing folks...

FOR ME a lot of the tinkering motivates the practice. Don't anyone think for a second that I don't practice. I practice A LOT. Different styles. Different genres. Different instruments. A good portion of my income now comes from teaching private trumpet lessons. I am a musician first. But the tinkering thing... Just in my DNA (ask me about ski boots some time). Within the guitar itself I have certain basic expectations, balance being critical. And as I PRACTICE and listen critically I begin hearing things that I want to bring out and other things that I find annoying to my ears. But you know what? (At least for me) it's fun and I just share my exploits with any interested parties.

Fair enough Vindi!!!

Can't argue with a person havin' fun tech geeking out...but you are either a pro or super serious committed amateur musician, via Trumpet, so I can see where you are coming from.

Thing is Vindi, there are a lot of newbies...I say that lovingly...to acoustic guitar coming out here on the AGF, and there are lots and lots of hobby players...like me...out here who have varying levels of skill, expertise, and understanding of all things acoustic guitar...all the tech about the instrument itself, the accessories, the various playing style and techniques...BUT...ESPECIALLY concerning the complicated and confusing areas of instrument tech...designs, woods, geometries, tone production theories, etc, and accessory tech...capos, strings, picks, tuners, bridge pins {;-), etc...we as a group sort of have a responsibility not to get folks too lost in the weeds of tech geeking, which can, and has, cost many many people lots of lost time, LOTS of lost money and ultimately, lost enjoyment playing guitar and making music.

I have seen this happen first hand to a one of my very best friends, who chased the wisdom...the "truths"...of others for a number of years searching for their Holy Grail guitar/guitar tone, and grail strings, and grail capo...and, and, and

...and in the end, they had spent a staggering amount of time and money and never did quite found their "truths" in all their searches, because the truths of others they had followed did not turn out to be a good fit for them, and they did not want, for some reason, to trust their own feelings, their own truths, over the people and the guitar forum that they listened/hung out on, and respected, more than themselves, and they ended up much the poorer and quite literally worn out mentally and physically from all the enormous effort they put forth, and they still have not really recovered and this all occurred around 2009 to 2014.

A cautionary tale tis indeed.

Vindi you approach all of this tech stuff with a very serious musicians level of musical knowledge and intelligence from your trumpet and classical? and jazz? music expertise, and bring that over to your HUGE level of enthusiasm for guitar, but you know and understand things from a much different musical knowledge level and perspective than likely most of the folks out here...me included in certain ways no doubt! So folks out here, especially those new to the game, and/or really getting into all things acoustic guitar and AGF, and thirsting for knowledge can and will be influenced by what you say, and what you post, because you present it with supreme confidence and authoritative conviction, bolstered by your high level musical background.

But you have to keep in mind...we ALL have to keep in mind...that YOUR truth...or OUR truths...each of us...about all things guitar, is your/our truth, and not necessarily a universal or absolute truth, or a truth for any/every other AGF member. We all have our own guitar "truths" that work for us, and we should certainly share our "truths" with each other out here, where we think it helpful and appropriate, but temper it with the understanding that, what is true for us, what works well for us, may not work as well, or at all, for anyone else out here.

We kinda hafta try and offer good sound information, advice and testimonials, but always keep a balance of helping people learning all these myriad details...BUT...remember that the first and most important thing we need to teach, learn, and support each other with, is the notion that of all things guitar and AGF, the most important "truth" first and foremost, is to play, make music, have fun doing so.

I know, I know...my truth


Oh...and Vindi...what about Ski Boots...exactly {;-)

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

Fair enough Vindi!!!

Can't argue with a person havin' fun tech geeking out...but you are either a pro or super serious committed amateur musician, via Trumpet, so I can see where you are coming from.

Thing is Vindi, there are a lot of newbies...I say that lovingly...to acoustic guitar coming out here on the AGF, and there are lots and lots of hobby players...like me...out here who have varying levels of skill, expertise, and understanding of all things acoustic guitar...all the tech about the instrument itself, the accessories, the various playing style and techniques...BUT...ESPECIALLY concerning the complicated and confusing areas of instrument tech...designs, woods, geometries, tone production theories, etc, and accessory tech...capos, strings, picks, tuners, bridge pins {;-), etc...we as a group sort of have a responsibility not to get folks too lost in the weeds of tech geeking, which can, and has, cost many many people lots of lost time, LOTS of lost money and ultimately, lost enjoyment playing guitar and making music.

I have seen this happen first hand to a one of my very best friends, who chased the wisdom...the "truths"...of others for a number of years searching for their Holy Grail guitar/guitar tone, and grail strings, and grail capo...and, and, and

...and in the end, they had spent a staggering amount of time and money and never did quite found their "truths" in all their searches, because the truths of others they had followed did not turn out to be a good fit for them, and they did not want, for some reason, to trust their own feelings, their own truths, over the people and the guitar forum that they listened/hung out on, and respected, more than themselves, and they ended up much the poorer and quite literally worn out mentally and physically from all the enormous effort they put forth, and they still have not really recovered and this all occurred around 2009 to 2014.

A cautionary tale tis indeed.

Vindi you approach all of this tech stuff with a very serious musicians level of musical knowledge and intelligence from your trumpet and classical? and jazz? music expertise, and bring that over to your HUGE level of enthusiasm for guitar, but you know and understand things from a much different musical knowledge level and perspective than likely most of the folks out here...me included in certain ways no doubt! So folks out here, especially those new to the game, and/or really getting into all things acoustic guitar and AGF, and thirsting for knowledge can and will be influenced by what you say, and what you post, because you present it with supreme confidence and authoritative conviction, bolstered by your high level musical background.

But you have to keep in mind...we ALL have to keep in mind...that YOUR truth...or OUR truths...each of us...about all things guitar, is your/our truth, and not necessarily a universal or absolute truth, or a truth for any/every other AGF member. We all have our own guitar "truths" that work for us, and we should certainly share our "truths" with each other out here, where we think it helpful and appropriate, but temper it with the understanding that, what is true for us, what works well for us, may not work as well, or at all, for anyone else out here.

We kinda hafta try and offer good sound information, advice and testimonials, but always keep a balance of helping people learning all these myriad details...BUT...remember that the first and most important thing we need to teach, learn, and support each other with, is the notion that of all things guitar and AGF, the most important "truth" first and foremost, is to play, make music, have fun doing so.

I know, I know...my truth


Oh...and Vindi...what about Ski Boots...exactly {;-)

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

Thank you for putting into words more eloquent than my above post. I agree with
You 100% and can positively say that because of AGF I went down the bridge pins, strings, picks, capos rabbit hole trying to find a tone that my guitars already had stock. I’m over it and I’m just focusing on playing a LOT. I use my Blue Chip for my Martin, my Wegen for my Bourgeois, Martin strings on the d41, GHS signature series mediums on the Bourgeois and G7th capos for both and I’m not spending another penny trying to find something else.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

.....Flatpicking and, by extension, bluegrass, is about DOING it. It's about passion, about technique, and it's about hard work, and constant strive to get better.

The only thing that will [aid this] is listening to this music, A LOT. And you have to play it, A LOT. You have to live and breathe this kind of stuff, and you have to get out and play with others. Bluegrass is all about playing with other people.

There are lots of opportunities to develop bad picking habits, and the key is to avoid those. I have found nothing as useful on my own flatpicking journey as Bryan Sutton's online school.

And mostly, flatpicking is about having fun.

Get out there, pick with people and have fun!

As a bluegrass fiddler and picker I cannot agree more with the above. Bluegrass is a different scene musically, culturally and socially than jazz, blues, folk or rock. The single best thing I've done to improve as a musician in the past 40+ years was starting going to weekly bluegrass jams 10 years ago.

[Starter]

So I get the whole "don't obsess about equipment" thing. But still (this being the AGF) could I ask: what's the deal with liking different picks on different guitars? Martin + Blue Chip / Bourgeois + Wegen. For those of us interested in obsessing, please explain: why would one kind of pick work better for one kind of guitar?

will

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by Starter

So I get the whole "don't obsess about equipment" thing. But still (this being the AGF) could I ask: what's the deal with liking different picks on different guitars? Martin + Blue Chip / Bourgeois + Wegen. For those of us interested in obsessing, please explain: why would one kind of pick work better for one kind of guitar?

will

My Blue Chip sounds amazing with my D41 and for some reason, I’m not too fond of the tone it produces on my Bourgeois. My Wegen 1.20 bluegrass produces the perfect tone with my Bourgeois which is a mahogany back/sides guitar. My D41 is a rosewood back/sides model.

[J Patrick]

....I think what this thread demonstrates is how differently we can interpret each other and how as posters we do assume some things about the one starting the thread....often it’s based on the text plain and simple...sometimes on prior threads....it’s hard not to bring our own notions to the subject because that’s kinda the point....

...the actual point is..sometimes our assumptions are wrong...as for bridgepins...I have been playing bluegrass on Dreads for 40 years and I prefer ebony pins...unslotted..and yes I have tried bone horn plastic and several other...kinds.....I ain’t never gonna try metal....

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Starter

So I get the whole "don't obsess about equipment" thing. But still (this being the AGF) could I ask: what's the deal with liking different picks on different guitars? Martin + Blue Chip / Bourgeois + Wegen. For those of us interested in obsessing, please explain: why would one kind of pick work better for one kind of guitar?

will

To me it's not that one particular instrument requires a specific pick for the tone I want. I find that in general a given pick material has a big and similar influence on the tone regardless of whether I'm playing my archtop with monel strings, my mandolin with 80-20 bronze, my octave mandolin with flatwound chromes, etc. I use thick (2.0 mm) picks.

Acrylic picks (Gravity) have the brightest tone. My Vespel (Bluechip) has a darker mellow tone. My all around favorite, Wegen (i don't know what material they're made of) is nicely in the middle. The shape (rounded teardrop vs pointy teardrop vs rounded triangle etc.) also influences tone some, but not near as much as the material.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

Vindi, as someone who has been "chasing the best flatpicking sound" myself for the past 8 or so years, can I share my honest suggestion?

You may not like it.

Forget all this bridge pin baloney, and all these exercises in what amounts to nothing but theory.

Flatpicking and, by extension, bluegrass, is about DOING it. It's about passion, about technique, and it's about hard work, and constant strive to get better.

All this talk here on the forum about other flatpickers and how to "emulate" their playing is not going to get you what you're after.

The only thing that will is listening to this music, A LOT. And you have to pay it, A LOT. You have to live and breathe this kind of stuff, and you have to get out and play with others. Bluegrass is all about playing with other people.

Technique is about 300% more important in achieving a good flatpicking sound and technique than bridge pin details.

There are lots of opportunities to develop bad picking habits, and the key is to avoid those. I have found nothing as useful on my own flatpicking journey as Bryan Sutton's online school.

And mostly, flatpicking is about having fun. Obsessing over bridge pins, the minutiae of bracing patterns etc. is a complete waste of time.

Get out there, pick with people and have fun!

+1! We all need to sound like ourselves and create our own tone.