My recent NGD

[DanR]

About 2 1/2 weeks ago, I posted a NGD with my '67 Gretsch Double Anniversary. I am quite happy with this guitar and have been playing it every day since it's arrival. The only negative about the guitar was the fact that the only tone control was a three way switch affectionately named by Gretsch aficionados the "mud switch." I found either position, besides the middle 'neutral' position, unusable. I just picked up the guitar from my tech today after he replaced the capacitors on the switch with caps roughly 1/10 the value of the originals and now the switch is usable and I'm even more fond of the guitar as I was before the mod. I would definitely recommend the mod to anyone not happy with the stock switch. I do realize that the more recent Gretsch guitars with that switch have smaller value caps.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by DanR

About 2 1/2 weeks ago, I posted a NGD with my '67 Gretsch Double Anniversary. I am quite happy with this guitar and have been playing it every day since it's arrival. The only negative about the guitar was the fact that the only tone control was a three way switch affectionately named by Gretsch aficionados the "mud switch." I found either position, besides the middle 'neutral' position, unusable. I just picked up the guitar from my tech today after he replaced the capacitors on the switch with caps roughly 1/10 the value of the originals and now the switch is usable and I'm even more fond of the guitar as I was before the mod. I would definitely recommend the mod to anyone not happy with the stock switch. I do realize that the more recent Gretsch guitars with that switch have smaller value caps.

I was never happy with the mud switch values, so much so, that I sold my first Double Annie to buy a modern Players Edition Model that replaced the mud switch with an actual tone control which I love. And the 6120 came stock with a tone control, but I still have a DuoJet with the mud switch though, so maybe I'll swap values in that one.

no mud switches here





MUD SWITCH...

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by DanR

About 2 1/2 weeks ago, I posted a NGD with my '67 Gretsch Double Anniversary...The only negative about the guitar was the fact that the only tone control was a three way switch affectionately named by Gretsch aficionados the "mud switch."...I just picked up the guitar from my tech today after he replaced the capacitors on the switch with caps roughly 1/10 the value of the originals and now the switch is usable and I'm even more fond of the guitar as I was before the mod. I would definitely recommend the mod to anyone not happy with the stock switch. I do realize that the more recent Gretsch guitars with that switch have smaller value caps.

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

...I sold my first Double Annie to buy a modern Players Edition Model that replaced the mud switch with an actual tone control which I love. And the 6120 came stock with a tone control, but I still have a DuoJet with the mud switch though, so maybe I'll swap values in that one.

no mud switches here

Frankly I've always found the so-called "mud switch" quite useable, and while I run things wide open most of the time ("That Great Gretsch Sound") it comes in handy when I'm after something a little out of the ordinary. By way of background, it was introduced with the 1958 models along with the PAF Filter'tron pickups, Neo-Classic "thumbnail" inlays, and Project-o-Sonic stereo; in the latter case the ability to achieve "54 tone colors at the flip of a switch" was a strong selling point in those early Space Age days, and while Chet Atkins could keep a muffled bass line going beneath a clear-as-crystal melody with no additional gimmicks, the typical club guitarist was rarely so blessed (the double muffler setup fitted to double-cut Country Gents and White Falcons would not enter the line for another four years); FYI Chet himself also used the soft-rolloff position in some of his early/mid-60's work - the sound is immediately recognizable to any knowledgeable Gretsch fan...

Similarly, many jazz guitarists of the day were seeking a mellower tonality (read Gibson) than the combination of Filter-trons (with their characteristic jangle) and thin body woods could provide - and with the original Epiphone operation defunct, Gretsch positioned itself to assume primacy in the important New York home market over then-upstart Guild. FWIW the concept was nothing new - Leo Fender fitted a .1mfd cap to the first switch position on the Broadcaster (a specification that would continue well into the rock-&-roll era - and one which I kept on my late-CBS first-run '52 reissue when I had it rewired with a 5-way switch), which allowed a guitarist to double the bass player in the days before amplification became standard (I've done this myself with my '64 Double Annie, back in my high-school jazz band); in addition, the second rolloff position offers a tonality somewhat reminiscent of a New York Epiphone "Tone Spectrum" pickup with the tone control dialed back - once again, a highly useful feature for a guitar aimed at the New York studio/club market, and one I've used myself to accompany a solo vocalist or play "dinner music" chord-melody. In both cases it allowed the guitarist the plug-&-play convenience of a single amp EQ setting, coupled with the ability to instantly change tone color on-the-fly without fiddling with a tone knob - IMO no less valid, in either concept or execution, than the coil-tap/phase/series-parallel switches of a quarter-century later...

I noticed the vintage Ampeg combo in the photo above - wonderful combination with an old-school Gretsch, and standard fare among the NYC in-the-trenches players regardless of style back in the '60s. Don't know if you've ever tried it, but I was able to draw organ effects from my Double Annie and top-panel Ampeg Rocket using the neck pickup, full-rolloff tone switch position, the amp's built-in tremolo, and the speaker's natural breakup when hit with strong low-frequency content: very effective in a band setting when I played barre chords above the fifth fret, and the higher I went up the neck the more convincing it became - audience thought we were using a backing tape (we weren't), and the fellow musicians wanted to know what I did to my guitar/amp (dead stock on both counts - even used the factory-issue flatwound strings that came in the little round plastic container)...

BTW if you're a CSNY fan (IME most Gretsch players are) the original circuitry is what you're hearing on the first two albums. I've been using the combination of pickup and tone switches to make the rapid-fire changes on "Wooden Ships," from the smoky lead at the beginning (classic neck-pickup/full rolloff tone - also used on "Carry On") to the snarling bridge-pickup transitions to the twin-pickup verse accompaniment (impossible to get live with anything other than a Gretsch - trust me, I've tried) since day one; as much as I love my '13 double-cut White Falcon, the newer tone cap values won't allow me to get those sounds - and somewhat against my better judgment I'm seriously considering having it modded back to '63 specs, in keeping with its period appearance...

I'll be the first one to admit there are different flavors of "That Great Gretsch Sound": Dynasonic, at least four different iterations of Filter'tron, Super-tron, Hi-lo'tron, the more recent TV Jones offerings, Mega'tron, the now-defunct Super Hi-lo'tron (in fact a fully-humbucking modified Filter'tron and one of my personal favorites) - the recent Broad'tron is nothing more than a low-buck full-size humbucker in a Gretsch-style cover, and quite frankly Guitar Fetish does this type of pickup far better - such that it should be easy to zero in on a model that offers your preferred tone without modifications (viz. the aforementioned Players' Editions or pre-1958 designs); my first-call 3-PU cats'-eye 5622 is a total departure from what most people think of as "Gretsch," and while I'd favor the post-'58 tone switch over the factory knob I take it on its own merits, offering sonic possibilities I can't achieve from any other instrument. Simply put, the so-called "mud switch" is as much part of the charm and authentic period vibe as Hofner's similarly-idiosyncratic "staple-top" pickups and switch panel or Rickenbacker's five-knob "Rick-o-Sound" circuitry - and I don't see anyone retrofitting modern "improvements" to those...

[billyg]

Sh***t Steve DeRosa, that's quite an amazing post.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

...Simply put, the so-called "mud switch" is as much part of the charm and authentic period vibe as Hofner's similarly-idiosyncratic "staple-top" pickups and switch panel or Rickenbacker's five-knob "Rick-o-Sound" circuitry - and I don't see anyone retrofitting modern "improvements" to those...

Although I like many of the tones you describe and attribute to the mud switch, I absolutely love having the tone control over the switch. I'm looking for my own tone and I find it much easier to get with a tone control and a variety of good amps (which I have plenty of). As you say, there are many different flavors of the Great Gretsch Sound And as I said, I may play with the values of the mud switch in my duoJet to see if I can find some useable values, but frankly, I would prefer it with a tone control. Fortunately for me, the three pickup positions when the middle position on my Mud-Switch is engaged (bypass), sound pretty good to me as is. I've been playing Gretsches for over 25 years in band situations and the tones I got were great, although many times, not what people would associate with Gretsches. One of my best rigs was a pre-Fender DuoJet reissue with the ceramic magnet Filtertrons into a Matchless Hotbox, Blackface Dual Showman, and a 4X10 closed back Marshall cabinet. The rock and roll tone that spewed from that rig was righteous! Currently I'm playing my G6120T '55 VS into a Princeton Reverb clone (Winfield Amplification) and using it in my solo show. I LOVE Gretsches!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Although I like many of the tones you describe and attribute to the mud switch, I absolutely love having the tone control over the switch. I'm looking for my own tone and I find it much easier to get with a tone control and a variety of good amps...I've been playing Gretsches for over 25 years in band situations and the tones I got were great, although many times, not what people would associate with Gretsches...

That said, you need one of these to complete your collection:



All the tones we both love, and a whole bunch you'll never hear from any other Gretsch - this one's been my go-to since I bought it in May '16; sole drawback is that it's kinda on the heavy side (mine's 9 lbs. 3 oz. - in the same ballpark as some early-70's Gibson ES-345's/355's) which IMO is the only real reason you'll find them for sale on Reverb/eBay, since the QC is top-notch. FWIW it seems they've become a cult favorite, and Gretsch tried reissuing a Streamliner version (designated G2627 and only available in Georgia Green) a couple months ago; doesn't even appear on their official website, MF/GC seem to be the only ones who carry them, and they're such total dogs (played one at GC a couple months ago) that it's no surprise that they were discontinued as quickly as they were introduced (BTW GC just marked them down to $449 from $599 - a 25% drop - and even at that price they'll have a hard time moving them ). If you're gigging regularly I'd strongly recommend seeking one out (TMK Blackrider Guitars still has some NOS on hand, and there's plenty of excellent-condition used stuff out there) - IME it draws a lot of attention from the local musicians, and it'll nicely fill the sonic gap between your Double Annie and Duo Jet...

[PTony]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

That said, you need one of these to complete your collection:



All the tones we both love, and a whole bunch you'll never hear from any other Gretsch - this one's been my go-to since I bought it in May '16; sole drawback is that it's kinda on the heavy side (mine's 9 lbs. 3 oz. - in the same ballpark as some early-70's Gibson ES-345's/355's) which IMO is the only real reason you'll find them for sale on Reverb/eBay, since the QC is top-notch. FWIW it seems they've become a cult favorite, and Gretsch tried reissuing a Streamliner version (designated G2627 and only available in Georgia Green) a couple months ago; doesn't even appear on their official website, MF/GC seem to be the only ones who carry them, and they're such total dogs (played one at GC a couple months ago) that it's no surprise that they were discontinued as quickly as they were introduced (BTW GC just marked them down to $449 from $599 - a 25% drop - and even at that price they'll have a hard time moving them ). If you're gigging regularly I'd strongly recommend seeking one out (TMK Blackrider Guitars still has some NOS on hand, and there's plenty of excellent-condition used stuff out there) - IME it draws a lot of attention from the local musicians, and it'll nicely fill the sonic gap between your Double Annie and Duo Jet...

Love my 5620 and 5622. My 5230 Jet is a fun guitar to play and well made. But even with a complete re-wire, (CTS pots, orange drop cap(s), CTS switch & jack), “Biggsfix”, and a “Squishy Spring” it’s not “scratching my itch” like my 5620/5622.

To me, there’s just something VERY special about the 5620’s.

To the op...congrats. I’ve sold all other electrics in favor of Gretsch guitars since owning my 5620. I know that there are many great guitars companies out there. But I’m certainly a Gretsch fan.

Enjoy your new gear in good health, friend.

[PTony]

Should’ve mentioned the guitars that I believe Steve, and I are referring to are the now discontinued 5620’s/5622 with rosewood boards, and BT/Hi-Lo Tron pickups. I have not played any of the newly released Gretsch guitars other than my 5230.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by PTony

...as much as I love my 5230...I’d trade it plus a bit of cash for another 5620 in Rosa Red (or even the Georgia Green) in a heartbeat.

To me, there’s just something VERY special about the 5620’s...

You might find this of interest:

http://blackriderguitars.com/gretsch...-electromatic/
http://blackriderguitars.com/gretsch...-electromatic/

[PTony]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

You might find this of interest:

http://blackriderguitars.com/gretsch...-electromatic/
http://blackriderguitars.com/gretsch...-electromatic/

I certainly do! But, I have a one in, one out policy. I’ve finally downsized to a place where everything has a purpose. I’m trying to steer clear of guitars in cases sitting unplayed.

Ideally I’d work a trade deal out with someone. Or, trade my 5230 plus cash. Unfortunately I haven’t seen many 5620’s listed for trade.

Hindsight’s always 20/20 but had I known what I know now...I’d of bought 2 from Sweetwater when buying my black one. To add salt to the wound...I REALLY wish I’d of known about their limited edition red sparkle 5620. Completely missed the boat on that too.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

That said, you need one of these to complete your collection:



All the tones we both love, and a whole bunch you'll never hear from any other Gretsch - this one's been my go-to since I bought it in May '16; sole drawback is that it's kinda on the heavy side (mine's 9 lbs. 3 oz. - in the same ballpark as some early-70's Gibson ES-345's/355's) which IMO is the only real reason you'll find them for sale on Reverb/eBay, since the QC is top-notch. FWIW it seems they've become a cult favorite, and Gretsch tried reissuing a Streamliner version (designated G2627 and only available in Georgia Green) a couple months ago; doesn't even appear on their official website, MF/GC seem to be the only ones who carry them, and they're such total dogs (played one at GC a couple months ago) that it's no surprise that they were discontinued as quickly as they were introduced (BTW GC just marked them down to $449 from $599 - a 25% drop - and even at that price they'll have a hard time moving them ). If you're gigging regularly I'd strongly recommend seeking one out (TMK Blackrider Guitars still has some NOS on hand, and there's plenty of excellent-condition used stuff out there) - IME it draws a lot of attention from the local musicians, and it'll nicely fill the sonic gap between your Double Annie and Duo Jet...

I've actually considered one of these Gretsches they look like a fun rig!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by PTony

I certainly do! But, I have a one in, one out policy. I’ve finally downsized to a place where everything has a purpose. I’m trying to steer clear of guitars in cases sitting unplayed.

Ideally I’d work a trade deal out with someone. Or, trade my 5230 plus cash. Unfortunately I haven’t seen many 5620’s listed for trade.

Hindsight’s always 20/20 but had I known what I know now...I’d of bought 2 from Sweetwater when buying my black one. To add salt to the wound...I REALLY wish I’d of known about their limited edition red sparkle 5620. Completely missed the boat on that too.

FWIW I generally try to adhere to a similar one-in-one-out policy - there are, however, occasional exceptions to the rule...

One option I use when it's a must-have, grab-it-now-or-never item is to make the purchase while the getting is good, and then sell the piece I'm replacing after the fact - usually get a little higher return on the deal than I would in a straight-up trade, and the only (minor) drawback is that I have an extra case sitting around for a couple weeks...

Point of information: I've always loved the cats'-eye 6117 - back in the mid-70's I was in a band with a guy who owned two of the 1964-67 originals (one red, one black), as well as a one-of-a-kind '66 Double Annie finished in a deep blue similar to Rickenbacker's Azureglo (bought them for $75 each - talk about 20/20 hindsight... ) - and I came this close to pulling the trigger on a 5620 myself...

That said, the cats'-eye/3-PU 5622 is a very different animal, and if you're a serious Gretsch guy (as I am) you need one of these in your collection; as I told Rockabilly you've already got all the two-pickup stuff covered - this one will give you tones you'll never get from any other Gretsch and, other than the double cutaway, feels almost identical to your own 5620. FYI there's a fascinating (albeit highly apocryphal) history attached to the cats'-eye Gretsch electrics in their original incarnation - as there is with the MF exclusive G5448G two-tone Double Jet - that I've touched on in prior threads, and while both the original and 5620 are guitars that "were," on several levels the 5622 is the Gretsch that could have/should have been...

And now, for your viewing pleasure, some three-pickup Custom Shop creations courtesy of Street Sounds NYC (Brooklyn, NY), the world's largest authorized Gretsch dealer:

[beatcomber]

My '62 Tennessean:

[Steve DeRosa]

George wants his guitar back...

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

FWIW I generally try to adhere to a similar one-in-one-out policy - there are, however, occasional exceptions to the rule...

One option I use when it's a must-have, grab-it-now-or-never item is to make the purchase while the getting is good, and then sell the piece I'm replacing after the fact - usually get a little higher return on the deal than I would in a straight-up trade, and the only (minor) drawback is that I have an extra case sitting around for a couple weeks...

Point of information: I've always loved the cats'-eye 6117 - back in the mid-70's I was in a band with a guy who owned two of the 1964-67 originals (one red, one black), as well as a one-of-a-kind '66 Double Annie finished in a deep blue similar to Rickenbacker's Azureglo (bought them for $75 each - talk about 20/20 hindsight... ) - and I came this close to pulling the trigger on a 5620 myself...

That said, the cats'-eye/3-PU 5622 is a very different animal, and if you're a serious Gretsch guy (as I am) you need one of these in your collection; as I told Rockabilly you've already got all the two-pickup stuff covered - this one will give you tones you'll never get from any other Gretsch and, other than the double cutaway, feels almost identical to your own 5620. FYI there's a fascinating (albeit highly apocryphal) history attached to the cats'-eye Gretsch electrics in their original incarnation - as there is with the MF exclusive G5448G two-tone Double Jet - that I've touched on in prior threads, and while both the original and 5620 are guitars that "were," on several levels the 5622 is the Gretsch that could have/should have been...

And now, for your viewing pleasure, some three-pickup Custom Shop creations courtesy of Street Sounds NYC (Brooklyn, NY), the world's largest authorized Gretsch dealer:

Oh my! Those are some ridiculously cool guitars!