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  #1  
Old 11-16-2018, 08:46 PM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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Default Waterloo Ladder Braced Drivers - Pickup Success?

What do you ladder braced guitar players use live to capture that Waterloo ladder sound? Mics, pickups, phones? Any joy?

My WL-14L needs electricity....


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Old 11-17-2018, 01:20 AM
robey robey is offline
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In the studio, usually a Stager SR3 for single mic/voice or Royer 122V for close guitar micing.

Live I'd prefer to use a Beesneez Lulu, but if the FOH is freaking at the thought, then whatever he chooses - AKA Shure SM57.

If I could justify it, I'd love to have one of these for live work

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Old 11-17-2018, 06:40 AM
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In the past with a Martin CEO 7 I used a Fishman Spectrum Aura with the K & Ks with good results. When I tried the set up on my Waterloos WL-S and the Deluxe it didn't sound very good. While experimenting I ran strait into my acoustic amp and it sounded just like the guitar. I haven't done a show with my Waterloos yet but plan on getting a K & K XLR preamp for it as I believe that is all it'll need.
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:53 AM
gfirob gfirob is offline
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With a 30's ladder braced Kalamazoo KG14, I use K&K mini's with a Tonedexter. Works like a champ.
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Old 11-17-2018, 04:36 PM
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I have an early 70s Harmony Sovereign that is ladder braced. It is wild and boomy in the low end. It took the K&K into unusable territory.

In developing the Ultra Tonic pickup, it was one of my test cases and with it the boominess is now well under control.
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Old 11-17-2018, 06:49 PM
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My Waterloo WL14X has a LR Baggs Anthem SL system installed. It works well and I expect it would work equally well in your ladder braced guitar.
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:04 PM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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I have another Waterloo that I bought first...WL14X (X braced) and I had a K&K installed in that. I don’t like the sound on its own at all, but love it through my Tonedexter. While it sounds like a nice acoustic (sound), I don’t know if any of it captures the ‘It’ of the X bracing. Which is why I asked.... I will probably bite the bullet and get a K&K in the ladder braced so I suppose I will see if I can tell the difference between the 2 guitars. Doubt it! Plain as day acoustically.

I was going to try the full Anthem, that way I could turn the mic off if it fed and use a Tonedexter file with just the undersaddle. A friend has the anthem in his Gibson L-00 and I do like the sound he uses, but 2 things I don’t like are the battery bagg, which I have had fall off and it sounds like a bomb went off...and the control in the soundhole makes it impossible to put my bath plug in. (Soundhole plug feedback eliminator). On my Matons, the bath plug allows me to wind up the mic to full!

I think the new Fishman mic blend unit has the controls in the way of my bath plug too. Sounds good on the demos.

The controls on the soundhole also get in the way of my Sunrise soundhole pickup if I want to slot that in. I love the sound of the Sunrise, but does it sound like a ladder braced Waterloo WL14L? Nope!


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Old 11-18-2018, 10:25 PM
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Have you considered using a microphone on a stand? I've found the Shure SM81 condenser mics work well for acoustic guitars live. For "your guitar only louder" the SM81 on a stand in front of the guitar blows away any pickup system I've ever used or heard.

That said I'm long time Sunrise user. If you mic your guitar and use the Sunrise mixed with the mic you'll amplify the character of your ladder braced guitar and you should be able to get pretty loud without feedback.

Working a microphone just takes a good, well balanced guitar and a little practice. Singers have to learn to work a microphone. It's the same with guitar. You can control your tone and volume working a mic with a guitar just like a singer does. Pickups are the acoustic guitar equivalent of a headset mic for a singer. A modest microphone on a stand can sound really good with a nice instrument. Singing with a headset limits you.

I've never needed to use a feedback buster with a Sunrise. It's fairly resistant to feedback. If you ever have to play at feedback threshold with a Sunrise then put some stuffing type foam robber from a fabric store inside the guitar to dampen vibration somewhat. Size and place depend on the instrument. A Sunrise and a few inches square and placed under the bridge worked in my ladder braced Gibson LG1 back when I worked the rowdy California coast beach joints. You just want to break the feedback loop between the wood and your speakers. Light pressure under the top is all you need. Easy to insert the foam and to remove it after a gig.
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Last edited by Al Acuff; 11-18-2018 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:22 AM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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G

Yes, sad but true that a mic is still the best acoustic guitar sound. The WL14L sounds great with a plain old SM57 through my A&H mixer.

I was hoping someone would invent an easier system....like my Maton pickup systems but not as drastic to install. Plug and play dual source.... I mean, if I took 1 Maton that is plugged direct, to take a Waterloo I would need a whole other system with my Tonedexter and extra leads. In that respect, having a K&K in both Waterloos streamlines things.

Oh yeah, the Sunrise isn’t going to feed - I sat facing my amp/speaker and couldn’t get it to misbehave!


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