What could be the reason for strange 6th string tuning?

[Rauland]

Hi

What could be the reason for a strange tuning behaviour only for the 6th string?

I use a clip-on tuner (the TC Unitone) and an App on my phone (PRO guitar Tuner, which I find quite precise)


- On the phone, the 6th string seems to make the needle bounce a lot, the other strings are ok.

- Quite a big difference when tuning the 6th string and comparing the TC and the APP, around 6/8 cents, other strings are very similar or they are both the same.

- New Elixir PB Nanoweb 53-12 strings (I previously had the same strings but around 1 month old, changed them to new ones expecting some improvements, but unfortunately no)

Any suggestions why this could happen? it seems the 6th string sounds strange and this tuning difference distracts me a bit when playing not being sure if it's properly in tune or not.

Any suggestions welcome.
Thanks

[JayBee1404]

When you’re using the phone app, does the 12th-fret harmonic settle it down and tune OK? It sounds like your phone’s mic might be having a problem ‘hearing’ that low E frequency accurately. Phone mics aren’t necessarily the greatest quality.

[donlyn]

What could be the reason for strange 6th string tuning?

I occasionally have trouble with the bass E string too. My fall-back position is to get it in the ballpark and then just open tune it by ear in 4ths to the A string. Usually then just a tweak. Works every time.

Happens on both 6 and 12 string guitars. Tuning to "standard", I tune my 6 strings to A=440, and my 12 strings down a semi-tone to D#.

And I never use a 'phone tuner'. Been using Korg chromatic tuners for a very long time. I find clip-ons have their uses, but often aren't exact.

Be well and tune well,

Don
.

[cdkrugjr]

I’m not a huge fan of phone tuners, but the Boss app seems to work better than anything else I’ve tried.

I get the best results with a phone if I lay the phone in the waist of the guitar longways. It doesn’t seem to matter which way around it is so long as I can see it.

I’ve been using Snarks forever, though I’m occasionally tempted by the Peterson clip-on

[EZYPIKINS]

I always tune to the harmonic at the 12th fret. Been doing it that way for nearly 50 years.

Tuners seem to like the higher pitch.

[RJVB]

The AiryWare tuner app on my iPhone SE (1st gen) proved to be as accurate as a desktop Peterson tuner. Really not surprising is you know that that phone probably has more powerful hardware than the Peterson! The app exists for Android but I can't speak for the quality of the components it has to work with on that platform.

For reliable tuning of a given string, mute all other strings and pluck the target string with the flesh of your thumb above the 12th fret. That gives you the closest thing possible to a pure sine wave of the fundamental frequency, which is going to make the tuner's work easier. Pluck just hard enough to get a good read-out (it helps if your tuner displays the detected note here!) but not so hard you get a visibly sharp tone after the attack (or if you do, wait for it to settle while keeping an eye out on the detected note).

An alternative is to tune to the 1st harmonic at the 12th fret. That will have a more sine-like soundwave and also tends to be more stable.

Personally I dislike clip-ons as they're often not sensitive enough (for the kind of procedure described above) and also detect sound propagated through the neck (= a complex filter). I've seen many top classical guitarists use a specific soundhole tuner. No idea what make/model but given their pedigree I think the tuner must be reliable.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Rauland

…Any suggestions welcome.
Thanks

Hi Rauland
Try clipping the tuner to different spost along the headstock.

Be sure the ball end is properly seated on the string as well.

[CharlieBman]

Originally Posted by Rauland

it seems the 6th string sounds strange and this tuning difference distracts me a bit when playing not being sure if it's properly in tune or not.
Thanks

Could be you're overthinking a bit? Just get the 6th string in the ballpark, then play a G note on the 6th string and an open G string (3rd string) at the same time. Adjust the 6th string so they are in tune. You should be good to go.

[Rauland]

Thanks everybody for all the answers

Originally Posted by CharlieBman

Could be you're overthinking a bit? :up

I could, I was considering if there was possibly something wrong with the saddle or nut, I recently changed the saddle but can't remember if with the previous one I had the same problem ( I don't have it now)

I sometimes obsess a bit too much with tunning and intonation

Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS

I always tune to the harmonic at the 12th fret. Been doing it that way for nearly 50 years.

Tuners seem to like the higher pitch.

Thanks, I never tune to the harmonic, it seems to jump around a lot less to the harmonic, thanks!

Originally Posted by cdkrugjr

I’m not a huge fan of phone tuners, but the Boss app seems to work better than anything else I’ve tried.

I get the best results with a phone if I lay the phone in the waist of the guitar longways. It doesn’t seem to matter which way around it is so long as I can see it.

I’ve been using Snarks forever, though I’m occasionally tempted by the Peterson clip-on

I'll try the Boss, too, thanks for the suggestion.

I'm also tempted to try the Peterson, I'm considering the StroboPLUS HDC https://www.petersontuners.com/products/stroboplushdc/ so I can see also how well the guitar is intonated as I play (it could drive me crazy though)

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Rauland

I'm also tempted to try the Peterson, I'm considering the StroboPLUS HDC https://www.petersontuners.com/products/stroboplushdc/ so I can see also how well the guitar is intonated as I play

There's a chance that it isn't fast enough for that and you may simply not have the time to see what the strobe display is trying to tell you - if you mean to check intonation while playing at a normal speed.

In terms of hardware tuning devices I'm only aware of a d'Addatio 64bit tuning pedal that uses speed as a selling argument.

[Robin, Wales]

The 6th string kicks out a lot of harmonics, which does confuse both tuners that work from vibrations and those that work from sound. Harmonics are in just temperament, your tuners are trying to read in equal temperament - so it can all get a bit messy.

Playing the 12th fret harmonic on the 6th string (which does match equal temperament) can calm things down a bit and helps your tuner (vibration or sound) to "read" what's going on.

The very best tuner is your ears. It will be a constant fight to get the intonation "right" for every key and every string at every fret - mainly because our ears don't particularly like equal temperament even if our electronic tuners do!!! So I expect you will find that a large percentage of those of us who frequent AGF use our electronic tuners for "guidance" not as the gospel truth!

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

The 6th string kicks out a lot of harmonics,

Do you have a reference to back up that claim? According to my ears the thickest string is the one with the least harmonics (it sounds the tubbiest), at least with steel strings.

I probably still haven't completely wrapped my brain about things like inharmonicity and tubbyness (cf. big fat nylon G strings) but esp. the former parses like something that could easily confuse a tuner that tries to figure out the fundamental frequency of a spectrum.
(FWIW, I'd be very surprised if the average tuner didn't have a good old lowpass filter on the input.)

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by RJVB

Do you have a reference to back up that claim? According to my ears the thickest string is the one with the least harmonics (it sounds the tubbiest), at least with steel strings.

I probably still haven't completely wrapped my brain about things like inharmonicity and tubbyness (cf. big fat nylon G strings) but esp. the former parses like something that could easily confuse a tuner that tries to figure out the fundamental frequency of a spectrum.
(FWIW, I'd be very surprised if the average tuner didn't have a good old lowpass filter on the input.)

No I don't have any references, just observations. If I try and play one of the more unusual harmonics, such as the second fret harmonic, I can get it to sound easier on my 6th string than I can on the other strings.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

If I try and play one of the more unusual harmonics, such as the second fret harmonic, I can get it to sound easier on my 6th string than I can on the other strings.

That could also simply be because the string is less exacting in how it accepts to be put into that vibration mode (which could be simply because it typically has the lowest tension and/or because the vibration amplitudes are largest with this string).

But once you manage the same harmonic on every string, how do they sound in comparison to each other? That would be the question to ask, I think.

[abn556]

I have found the clip on tuners to be not that accurate. I typically use a Peterson Strobe Tuber but for convenience I have a TC Electric Poly Tune and a couple of Snarks laying around the house. The Snarks seem very inconsistent, the PolyTune is better, but neither of those comes close to the big Peterson.