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Old 04-19-2021, 09:05 PM
DCCougar DCCougar is offline
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Default Cellular blinds as acoustic dampeners?

My river house has all these large windows, ten of them, in a couple of rooms looking around and out upon the good-sized Clark Fork River. Several take up 75%-80% of the wall. All this glass would be the exact opposite of what you're looking for in terms of a recording space, right?

But dear Mrs. Cougar, in her "interior designer" mode, measured and ordered and we installed these cellular blinds, or honeycomb blinds. They're very cool, they work great, I'm not affiliated, haha.

But when they're all the way down, covering that big window, I was wondering if that might turn out to be a good thing for recording? Two of the walls in this one area are covered by these thin, honeycombed, cellular blinds that are covering the big windows.

I guess the question is, do these blinds do a fair, good, or excellent job as acoustic dampeners that one seeks in a sound room. No question they would be a definite improvement in my case over the hard glass alternative, but might they also turn out to do a little better than good? I don't know if the blind material "deadens" the sound at all, but it certainly presents a lot of angles for the sound to be disrupted by.

No pic of the room. Here's the idea for these cellular blinds....

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Old 04-20-2021, 01:12 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCCougar View Post
I guess the question is, do these blinds do a fair, good, or excellent job as acoustic dampeners that one seeks in a sound room. No question they would be a definite improvement in my case over the hard glass alternative, but might they also turn out to do a little better than good? I don't know if the blind material "deadens" the sound at all, but it certainly presents a lot of angles for the sound to be disrupted by.
You're confusing terms. You're saying "dampeners" when you mean to say "diffusors." You're also mistaken about the purpose of diffusors. They don't "deaden" sound (that would be accomplished with traps and those blinds are certainly not going to trap any frequencies human ears can hear). Diffusors diffract sound to eliminate or lessen problems like comb filtering and flutter echo. In simpler terms, they scatter sound.

As to whether they'll improve the sound of the room, it's unlikely anyone has studied the acoustic value of those blinds, so the best anyone can do is make an educated guess. There is no reason to believe those blinds will offer any kind of beneficial absorption so frequency reflections are going to be bouncing all over the room. I don't know what the material is. If it's some kind of non-porous vinyl or plastic, it may provide some diffusion benefit but without any kind of frequency absorption, I think the benefit is going to be quite small.

My guess is sub-fair.
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Old 04-20-2021, 08:37 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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Yep, Jim nailed it ^^^. Any change in sound is going to be so minimal it wont' be discerned. How does your wife feel about some heavy drapes?
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:52 AM
DCCougar DCCougar is offline
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Thanks, guys. It was worth a question.

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How does your wife feel about some heavy drapes?
Ha! Of course, as a female, she's big into window coverings and draperies, typically very expensive ones. I doubt those are in the river house budget at the time, but I'll tuck that away as a more ideal solution to soundproofing!
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DCCougar View Post
Thanks, guys. It was worth a question.



Ha! Of course, as a female, she's big into window coverings and draperies, typically very expensive ones. I doubt those are in the river house budget at the time, but I'll tuck that away as a more ideal solution to soundproofing!
To add to what has been said. It's doubtful that such thing material will provide any noticeable sound reflection or absorption improvement .

IMO (if you have room to store them) portable 2 Ft wide by 4 ft high sound absorption panels on stands (either commercial or DYI) will do much more improve your recording, than even heavy drapes
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Old 04-20-2021, 04:22 PM
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Do they make a difference? I don't know, but they seem to in my house.

Put them all the way up. Stand in the middle of the room and clap your hands. Even record it. Then pull them all down and repeat. That will give you your answer.

Here's what Hunter Douglas says about Cell Shades:

Because of their honeycomb design, cellular shades can insulate your windows not only from heat and cold but also from outside noise. Improve your room’s acoustics while reducing the intensity of outside sound with Duette®Honeycomb Shades. Known for their great insulating properties, these noise-reducing shades absorb up to 70% of sound energy, creating a quieter, more tranquil room.

From other websites:
Cell blinds are a therefore great way to insulate your windows from both heat and sound, some of the best honeycomb cell blinds can reduce sound transfer by over 50%.
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:37 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by DukeX View Post
Here's what Hunter Douglas says about Cell Shades:

Because of their honeycomb design, cellular shades can insulate your windows not only from heat and cold but also from outside noise. Improve your room’s acoustics while reducing the intensity of outside sound with Duette®Honeycomb Shades. Known for their great insulating properties, these noise-reducing shades absorb up to 70% of sound energy, creating a quieter, more tranquil room.
This is a bit apples and oranges. The purpose of room treatment isn't sound-proofing. Room treatment is to address the sounds created in the room (guitars, drums, keyboards, vocals, etc.).

Hunter Douglas wants to sell their product and the language they're employing here might be a tad misleading. I'm specifically curious about the phrase "up to 70%." They provide an efficacy ceiling but no floor. "Up to 70%" would include everything below 70% all the way down to zero. I've no doubt that you're hearing a difference in your home. Just about anytime we add something with a lot of surface area to a room, we're going to hear a difference. If I have an empty room and do the clap test before and after adding a sofa or carpet, I'm going to hear a difference. That doesn't mean the room is now going to be suitable for recording.

I don't personally know anyone who has sound-proofed a room so I haven't seen it first hand, but I've read enough books and articles about room treatment to understand the basic principles and to know that it is an expensive endeavor (which is why studios rarely go that route). I'm very skeptical of claims that 70% soundproofing can be achieved by hanging those shades. I'm sure it offers some degree of muffling but 70% seems unlikely, and that's probably why the company isn't providing a minimal efficacy expectation number. The way the description is worded, even a reduction of outside noise as low as 1% would shield the company from charges of false claims (I think it's probably better than that in all cases but unlikely to be anywhere near 70%).

But coming back to the OP's question, he's asking if those shades would be effective room treatment to make his room suitable for recording. While outside noise can be a bane, that's not the noise we're trying to tame when we treat a room with bass traps, panels, and diffusors.
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:38 AM
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Hate to rain on anyones parade BUT

I have the exact Hunter Douglass Duette®Honeycomb Shades mentioned , at my house and trust me it's not apples to oranges..... it's somewhere between apples to pure imagination of some contrived measurement , and pure baloney.

They absolutely do not absorb 70% of the sound energy . NOTE they do not say what kind of sound energy, what frequency/s of sound energy or what db level of sound energy.
Sure you might get a slight reduction in the ping on something like a slap sound, as opposed the ping off the glass,,,,, but to imagine it will make much difference in the full dynamics of a music sound recording,,,, is just that ,imagination...... And note they are not providing any proof of any kind "actual" sound absorbing measurement coefficient number ,,,, like the NCR number you get on actual sound absorbing material like OC 703 Rock wool etc.
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:24 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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We have the same ones in our large living room. No effect on sound as far as I can tell.

Since you have them installed already it would be easy enough for you to do an A/B comparison recording and listen for yourself.

The proof is in the proverbial pudding!
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:46 AM
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We have the same ones in our large living room. No effect on sound as far as I can tell.

Since you have them installed already it would be easy enough for you to do an A/B comparison recording and listen for yourself.

The proof is in the proverbial pudding!
Ya I have a fairly tall shed ceiling where my recording gear is set up and notice no difference, blinds open or closed. Not at the home now but might give a recorded A/B a try when I get back .

While I have no doubt that having all the windows fitted with Cellular blinds will tone down or slow down "slightly" some specific higher frequency refections.

But that said :: having looked into this question for 18 years now what I understand of laws of acoustical physics pertaining to sound reflection and absorption, for home recording environments. A tube of 2 to 4 " tube of thin cloth is going to have minimal at best effect on the total sound involved in recording music
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Old 04-21-2021, 11:24 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
But that said :: having looked into this question for 18 years now what I understand of laws of acoustical physics pertaining to sound reflection and absorption, for home recording environments. A tube of 2 to 4 " tube of thin cloth is going to have minimal at best effect on the total sound involved in recording music
The dogs might notice.
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Old 04-21-2021, 11:41 AM
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The dogs might notice.
Maybe,,,,, they tend to leave the room when I am recording, So ya I like to think it must be a comment on the reflections off the windows, and not how I sound
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Old 04-21-2021, 03:18 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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I'll try again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCCougar View Post
My river house has all these large windows...Several take up 75%-80% of the wall. All this glass would be the exact opposite of what you're looking for in terms of a recording space, right?
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCCougar View Post
...we installed these cellular blinds, or honeycomb blinds.

But when they're all the way down, covering that big window, I was wondering if that might turn out to be a good thing for recording? Two of the walls in this one area are covered by these thin, honeycombed, cellular blinds that are covering the big windows.
They do cut down on the direct reflections, and offer some sound absorption over glass windows. The clap test proves this. I know because I have tried it. Did it again today in my large dining/living room area. Very obvious difference in overall room echo and loudness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCCougar View Post
I guess the question is, do these blinds do a fair, good, or excellent job as acoustic dampeners that one seeks in a sound room. No question they would be a definite improvement in my case over the hard glass alternative, but might they also turn out to do a little better than good?
Yes, they will certainly be better than a hard, flat surface, which is what you had.

No, they are no substitute for proper room treatment (absorption, diffusion, bass traps etc.), and each room has different needs. No one in this thread has suggested otherwise.

For more info on room acoustics I recommend Ethan Winer's website.
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