Carbon Fiber Electronics

[MinnesotaGuy]

I'm having a hard time deciding which way to go with the electronics in my Rainsong H-DR1100N2. I'd like to see what others have used in their carbon fiber guitars and what they like.

Here is where I'm at. I know I want to get the Fishman Loudbox Mini for around the house and at local jam sessions, I've already ordered it. Then I thought the K&K Pure Mini pickup with the K&K Pure XLR Preamp would do the trick. After chatting with a very experienced guitar player and friend, he said that I may want to think twice about he K&K Pure Mini as my pickup for the Rainsong because the top sheet of the carbon fiber guitar my be too lively for the mics. He also mentions that he has some trouble with his resonator with the K&K Mini installed because he always ends up next to the bass player and the mics pick up the sound waves. Additionally he says feedback is a problem in a band environment (granted, I don't see me playing in a band in the near future, so that is less of a concern for me at this point).

We tried an M80 pickup one time, but the carbon fiber body of the guitar was so thin we couldn't get it to stay in place, the gap used by the pickup to fix the M80 to the sound hole was too large and it would just slip off. I guess I can fix that by using a little paper or mole skin to get a better grip on the body, but in the meantime I thought I'd run it past you guys.

Are any of you using aftermarket electronics in your CF guitar? If so, how is it working for you?

[Doubleneck]

I am not sure a CF guitar is that different as any other guitar that you want to electrify. I would think what you think sounds best in your wood guitar will probably work in a CF. I have heard good things about a K&K in CF guitars. I have used the built in Fishman UST standard in my Rainsongs. With a good preamp or a Aura pedal its pretty good. I have used a Lyric as well and probably found it to be the most natural, again a good preamp is necessary. Mags I have used only as a second source to be blended.

I could be off base but I think CF can be better than wood with a UST.

[jjbigfly]

My understanding is that the Fishman systems in Rainsongs were voiced for carbon Rainsongs.....Not that another system will not sound good.

[Doubleneck]

Originally Posted by jjbigfly

My understanding is that the Fishman systems in Rainsongs were voiced for carbon Rainsongs.....Not that another system will not sound good.

Is that true? Never heard that? The preamp gives you the ability to shape your sound very well but not sure its different for CF.

[mchalebk]

I'm pretty sure that the Fishman systems in the RainSongs are not voiced for RainSongs, unless you're talking about the Aura (which would be true of every OEM-equipped Aura guitar).

[steelvibe]

A solution to the exterior noise vs. interior guitar mic situation is to use a soundhole plug. I see a lot of solo artists doing this even when there is not other instruments present. My guess is that they have issues with the mic picking up frequencies from the stage monitors as was the case when I played acoustic back in the day live. I can't answer the K&K question or even speculate on the wisdom there since I've never owned one. I don't think, however, that the Fishman Prefix PlusT is specifically voiced for RS guitars. They are a stock item and can be ordered in the exact same state as found in RS guitars. It's not like the Aura where there is a chip that stores mic images that were uploaded to the unit. Just my .02

[jonfields45]

I put K&K Minis in several different RainSongs. They worked excellently and indistinguishably from various Martins I have also done the installs on. Jon

[Captain Jim]

I have the factory Fishman pickup in my RainSong Shorty - sounds great through a Loudbox Mini (and then run that to a PA when you need more sound). Between the controls on the guitar and the amp, there is plenty of adjustability. I haven't found the need for anything else to shape the sound.

One thing I do notice with the Fishman Prefix+T on the guitar, it does pick up any "thump" of my hand on the front of the guitar when I am seated... don't notice it as much when I play standing. (I practice while sitting, stand when playing out.) Hasn't been an issue, just mentioning that.

[jjbigfly]

I had heard from a dealer that the Fishman electronics were voiced for the Rainsong instruments. Not my information but it makes sense. I am sure that Rainsong would tell if this is so......

[Doubleneck]

Anybody use Aura pedal with their Fishman standard pickup? I have a Jumbo Aura pedal and use it once with my JM 1000 with as I remember pretty good results. Gave it a more woody tone. Lost it in my house got to do a search and try again.

[rwskaggs]

I use a JJB Prestige 330 in my 'Song (same as the K&K) with the Loudbox Mini as a monitor for s larger PA system.....love it with or without a preamp. I keep a lute hole cover in the case but have never used it. Any time I go to an open mic with an unknown system and operator I add a Redeye preamp due to long runs of cable. YMMV

[Uncle Pauhana]

I have a K & K pure mini in my Emerald X20-OS, and I'm very happy with it. I've never had any problems with feedback, and I've used it through a huge PA and monitor system at volumes suitable for an 800 person audience.

By the way, the K & K soundboard transducers are piezo pickups, not microphones. This is the same technology used in under saddle pick ups.

[mchalebk]

Originally Posted by jjbigfly

I had heard from a dealer that the Fishman electronics were voiced for the Rainsong instruments. Not my information but it makes sense. I am sure that Rainsong would tell if this is so......

As someone who has been following CF guitars very closely for a lot of years (got my first in 2006), I'm 99% sure this isn't true. I suspect this dealer got confused about Aura electronics, which are specifically voiced for the guitar they're offered on. CF guitars are not different enough from wood guitars to require special voicing for standard UST use.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by jjbigfly

I had heard from a dealer that the Fishman electronics were voiced for the Rainsong instruments. Not my information but it makes sense. I am sure that Rainsong would tell if this is so......

...and I've been studying pickup configurations and live acoustic guitar sound for quite some time- probably since 2007 or so. The stock pickups that go into all Rainsongs are not voiced for them. They may work better in carbon fibers than in wooden guitars, but that is coincidental. The Aura is voiced for a particular instrument using various high quality mics in a studio, and if they don't have the "voice" for your instrument you can send them a file and they will send the microphone images back to you. The concept of the Aura is amazing- to get a studio recorded mic image in a digital format that will color the signal for a live performance as if you were using the mic onstage, but without the hassles of feedback. The results I've heard are stunning. However, the Fishman Prefix barndoors that are installed on Rainsongs are nothing more special than if you bought one at GC and installed it on any guitar.

I would think that info would be a huge selling point for Rainsong, that the Prefix+ worked like the Aura's. They would put it up front and center and would certainly be on their website. If I'm wrong I hope Rainsong corrects me.

[MinnesotaGuy]

I cannot tell you guys how much I appreciate you all chiming in on my post. As a relatively new player, this type of discussion really helps me muddle through the vast options available and narrow it down a bit. This way, I know no matter which way I go, I know I will not have wasted good money on something that I will not be able to use.