Neck Dive

[Bluemonk]

I have a maple back and sides flattop guitar that is so lightweight in the body that it is slightly neck heavy. It has Schaller tuning machines with chrome buttons. I'm wondering if the weight difference between the chrome buttons and either wood or black mother of pearl buttons is significant enough that replacing the buttons might solve my neck dive problem. Anyone have any experience or insight?

Thanks.

[charles Tauber]

If they are full-sized Schallers, replacing them with their mini's will make a difference. Replacing the knobs of the full-size ones won't make a lot of difference.

[Bluemonk]

Thanks Charles. Are the screw placements the same on the full size and mini Schallers?

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Bluemonk

Thanks Charles. Are the screw placements the same on the full size and mini Schallers?

If memory serves me correctly, no. The reduction in weight is, in part, due to the smaller housings, which have different screw hole placements.

[The Bard Rocks]

If all else fails you can add a counterbalance to the end peg. Cheap and reversible.

[LemonCats]

I have a classical guitar with maple back and sides and i also noticed that the neck is like 10 times heavier than the body. im wondering if maybe maple is just super light weight?

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by Bluemonk

I have a maple back and sides flattop guitar that is so lightweight in the body that it is slightly neck heavy. It has Schaller tuning machines with chrome buttons. I'm wondering if the weight difference between the chrome buttons and either wood or black mother of pearl buttons is significant enough that replacing the buttons might solve my neck dive problem. Anyone have any experience or insight?

Thanks.

Blue, either ebony or pearloid aftermarket buttons will cut a significant amount of weight if you use them to replace the stock metal buttons on full-sized Schallers.

I just dug around in my parts box trying to find a full-sized Schaller stock metal button to weigh on my kitchen scale. I found six in a little ziplock bag, and a few full-sized ebony aftermarket buttons, too.

The stock Schaller metal button weighs 10 grams, while the same size ebony button weighs 3 grams. (This is exclusive of the weight of the screws and washers, which won’t change anyway if you switch from metal buttons to wood or plastic.) Since there’s 30 grams to an ounce, six metal buttons will weigh 2 ounces.

It’s not a huge weight reduction, but it’s one that does affect the physical balance of the instrument. So swapping out the stock metal buttons for wood or high grade plastic will make a discernible difference. It might not completely “solve the neck dive problem” - if the guitar also has a maple neck, that’s part of the problem, too, and possibly a bigger part of it - but putting lighter buttons on the tuners will still help.

By the way, while I was at it I decided to weigh a full-sized Grover metal button, and it came in at 12 grams, 2 grams heavier than the stock Schaller button. So if I had any Grovers on any of my guitars (which I don’t, not sealed gear Rotomatics, anyway,) I’d be even more motivated to swap out the stock buttons for light weight aftermarket replacements!

Anyway, I routinely replace stock metal tuner buttons with aftermarket buttons, both to cut weight and to add a bit of visual elegance to the headstock. I think I have only one guitar with metal tuner buttons on it, and that’s because it’s got a set of vintage-style open gear tuners with metal butter bean buttons.

Short version: yes, lightweight aftermarket tuner buttons will cut a discernible amount of weight from your guitar’s headstock. But if the guitar has a maple neck, it probably won’t entirely correct the problem.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Short version: yes, lightweight aftermarket tuner buttons will cut a discernible amount of weight from your guitar’s headstock. But if the guitar has a maple neck, it probably won’t entirely correct the problem.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

Thank you Wade. Yes, it helps. This seems like my best option, as I don't want to drill holes for new tuning machines or otherwise alter the guitar permanently by adding ballast to the body.

It does have a maple neck, but the neck heaviness is relatively slight, so hopefully the buttons will make just enough difference.

[ManyMartinMan]

I know we've discussed this here but every lever, sling... has a perfect balancing point. Why can't you just adjust the strap on your neck/shoulder to balance the guitar?

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by Bluemonk

Thank you Wade. Yes, it helps. This seems like my best option, as I don't want to drill holes for new tuning machines or otherwise alter the guitar permanently by adding ballast to the body.

It does have a maple neck, but the neck heaviness is relatively slight, so hopefully the buttons will make just enough difference.

The weight you drop by switching to wood or plastic buttons is enough to be felt by you as the player, that much I can guarantee you. But maple necks are heavier than mahogany necks, so it might not entirely correct the problem.

Let's keep our fingers crossed!


whm

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

I know we've discussed this here but every lever, sling... has a perfect balancing point. Why can't you just adjust the strap on your neck/shoulder to balance the guitar?

Because I play this guitar sitting down. It doesn't have a strap button, and I don't want to drill a hole in it to add one.

[tomiv9]

Hmmm now I'm curious if changing the weight at the headstock affects the tone of your guitar. Isn't there some affect on resonance frequency or wolf notes that I've read about?

[fazool]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

If they are full-sized Schallers, replacing them with their mini's will make a difference. Replacing the knobs of the full-size ones won't make a lot of difference.

It might help. I had really heavy metal knobs and replaced them with very light black plastic ones.

I posted about the weight difference. It was noticeable, especially on a two foot lever arm.

So it depends but it might help.

[Misifus]

I replaced the stock metal buttons on the Gotoh 510s on my Kinscherff. I could definitely feel the difference in the weight of the head.

Along the same lines, I did not have a strap button put on the heel of my Martin acoustic bass, because with the long neck, the neck dive is considerable. A strap tied to the headstock controls it much better.