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  #16  
Old 09-16-2009, 08:16 AM
jamison162 jamison162 is offline
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Originally Posted by hann View Post
It looks like a great preamp based on your initial analysis but if it's gonna be so troublesome to match it with a K&K trinity wouldn't that be a deal breaker?

for me at least it is... imaging rewiring several trinity-equipped guitars..

and i wouldn't be able to test future preamps..
You would just need one of the special cables for the EDB-1. Use it with all your K&K guitars. I don't see it as a big deal unless you just want to settle for less.
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2009, 08:35 AM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Why would someone want to use a preamp for a K&K mini and internal mic if it doesn't have separate eq for each source prior to blending?
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  #18  
Old 09-16-2009, 09:03 AM
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Why would someone want to use a preamp for a K&K mini and internal mic if it doesn't have separate eq for each source prior to blending?
Hi sdsr...
While that is an interesting question, on a personal level, my separate channel tone settings on my other preamps (which I set by ear with eyes closed) are nearly identical, so I don't have an issue.

If someone is trying to isolate/eliminate and use only certain frequency spectrums of each channel, then this would not be the preamp for that.

David Wilcox, for instance, has a 5 way system installed in his road guitars and uses separate, and very elaborate, EQ on each source to isolate/permit only a predefined frequency spectrum to reach the amp/board from each source. This kind of preamp would not work for that approach to dual-source amplification.

I do believe the more high-end or ''flat'' the equipment is, the less it needs to be EQed.

All I can tell you so far is with an external condenser mic (AT2021) and the pickup, the incorporated EQ was very good at tweaking it with minimal movement off ''FLAT''. In fact I was surprised at how good it sounds with everything just set flat with each source.

I was also immediately impressed with how robustly it handles dynamic changes. This thing doesn't even flinch when you lean into it at high volumes where other preamps overload.

Perhaps good tone with flat settings is the ''unheard'' effect of proper impedance matching (someone suggested the switches didn't change anything noticeable for them).


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  #19  
Old 09-16-2009, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jamison162 View Post
...Edit: Larry, since you have ongoing correspondence with John L., why don't you copy and paste my cable idea and ask him if this will work.
Obviously there are many preamps on the market which supply phantom on a certain input which also feeds the signal. But, John had these
isolated from each other on Ch.1's insert. Not fully understanding phantom and eveything, I would want to make sure this will not cause any damage
to the EDB-1 by linking the signal source and phantom on Ch.1 itself.
Hi jamison...
I received a note from John Littler of Headway Sound today updating a question I had about plugging an external phantom powered mic into channel 2 via XLR with the phantom power on and then plugging a mono cable into channel 1 for the pickup as to whether it will be a problem...since it has +12volt phantom supplied to it at the same time.

His response is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by john littler from headway
Larry, we designed the circuit so that the phantom to CH 1 would be turned off if a
mono jack is inserted. Otherwise the phantom current would be shorted to
ground and use up the battery power very quickly. Therefore there would be no problem.


I forwarded your suggestion and question about wiring the ''far-end'' of a split cable as well...I'll let you know what the response is.

Hope this contributes to the ongoing experimentation.

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  #20  
Old 09-16-2009, 01:47 PM
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Good to know, I knew it would be shorted to ground as I had mentioned this earlier. But having it turn off in that case is clever.
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  #21  
Old 09-16-2009, 02:15 PM
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Good to know, I knew it would be shorted to ground as I had mentioned this earlier. But having it turn off in that case is clever.
Hi jamison...
Does that affect your wiring proposal?
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  #22  
Old 09-16-2009, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi jamison...
Does that affect your wiring proposal?
No not at all, it will "see" the ring which is seperate from ground. You will actually be using a TRS not a mono plug into Ch. 1. The 12v phantom power will be supplied at the ring which is connected to the tip (source for Ch.1) which is connected to the mic - flow though the mic (small condenser) making it operational then to ground or wherever it goes.
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  #23  
Old 09-16-2009, 03:11 PM
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No not at all, it will "see" the ring which is seperate from ground. You will actually be using a TRS not a mono plug into Ch. 1. The 12v phantom power will be supplied at the ring which is connected to the tip (source for Ch.1) which is connected to the mic - flow though the mic (small condenser) making it operational then to ground or wherever it goes.
Thanks Jamison...
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  #24  
Old 09-16-2009, 08:31 PM
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So he's made a preamp that is made to work with an UST and an external mic primarily? The only problem with that is that's NOT the way the vast majority of pros amplify their rig these days. PA has to be pristine and set right for that to work consistantly. I use a fishman Barn door with the Mic blended in about 1/4 of the way with correct EQ, Notching and Compression it sounds great but I will admit, it's not plug in play if I were to bring it to an open mic.

I'm currently looking for an Avalon U5 replacement as that unit is just too big for my current travel needs. I'd love to hear a comparison of this Headway and the Sansamp ParaDriver DI or Acoustic DI. That one really interests me because of it's size and the praise I hear about. Now this Headway has me intrigued as well. My Barndoor is Mono so this preamp should work fine. Need to see a few more reviews of the Headway and if anyone has a comparitive analysis of this unit and the Sansamp, I'd love to hear about it.
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  #25  
Old 09-16-2009, 08:33 PM
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ok I didn't understand the whole page.. but if all it requires is a different cable i'm gonna keep reading!
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  #26  
Old 09-16-2009, 08:44 PM
jaskofall jaskofall is offline
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Originally Posted by hann View Post
ok I didn't understand the whole page.. but if all it requires is a different cable i'm gonna keep reading!
Hann,
Its really not that big of a deal to make the suggested cable. Its really quite easy.
I think the preamp shows quite a bit of promise.
The fact that you cant EQ the sources individually hopefully should be overcome by the adjustable Notch on this unit.
Im not sure if I would rather have separate 3 band eq such as the Solstice or have a 5 band eq and fully adjustable notch as is on the headway.
I have heard a few complain about the lack of notch on the solstice, but that is probably to encourage people to buy the Equinox.
Same story with the Baggs para di not having enough notch to kill feedback so they suggest you buy the feedback master as well. 2 sales are better than 1

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  #27  
Old 09-16-2009, 09:08 PM
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So he's made a preamp that is made to work with an UST and an external mic primarily? The only problem with that is that's NOT the way the vast majority of pros amplify their rig these days.
Hi sven...
No, I don't think I've explained it properly. The EDB-1 is certainly not limited to a UST and external mic - nor probably designed with that primarily in mind. It is so much more flexible.

John Littler from Headway is very aware that it is not designed to blend seamlessly with the way acoustic guitar pros (and just serious players) run our rigs these days. Part of his aim is to have we guitarists rethink the way we amplify the rigs we use.

While I may disagree with some of his specific take on this, it is a bold thing for him to bring to market a rig which does everything it does and in a small, quiet, powerful package, & with more headroom than most other preamps out there and at a very competitive price. And I'm not inclined to just dismiss his ideas out of hand.

Perhaps he is going to be instrumental in developing a better way to amplify these wonderful instruments.

And just to hopefully convey the info a bit more accurately, he has built a flexible, top-notch preamp for single source use as well as multi-source use. In fact the single source could be a either a passive pickup, an active pickup or an external condenser mic.

It is certainly not limited to only using it with a pickup and external mic. It can power internal sources, and dual passive sources via TRS.

The phantom powered XLR input makes it a good option for the small external mics like Doug Young reviewed here recently. And it would be easy to use one of those in combination with an internal pickup or internal mic. The possible configurations are plentiful...

There are already many string bass players, and other orchestral string players employing his novel amplification concepts - some in conjunction with this preamp...here is the link to his site. Some of the most thorough reviews of the EDB-1 I found online were from bassists.

Headway Audio - click

My K&K Pure Western Mini pickups played as a single source through the EDB-1 sounds better than with any of my other preamps, or any other preamp I've ever played it through to date. It is a wonderful single source sound.

I have also messed around with it adding an external condenser mic, and it's the most accurate sounding setup I've used to date through my amp. Fun to play that way too...it was like playing my guitars only bigger. It certainly didn't sound like my guitar coming out of an amp...

I only have one other preamp that even accepts XLR, but it doesn't provide enough phantom to power a condenser mic so I cannot readily compare this feature with my any of my other preamps.

I like having the option to carry a single piece of gear (in the pick drawer) which can operate as a single and/or multiple dual source device - and sound great in so many different ways.

I'm making a prediction...if my internal pickups sound this much better through the EDB-1 (I've tried each of my guitars through it), the internal mic will probably sound better too. It should make an amazing kit...

Hope this helps the discussion without clouding it...


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  #28  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:11 PM
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Do any of you guys have experience with the Equinox and how it might compare. Also the Sansamp, I keep forgetting about those but T21 does make some great stuff.

Larry, how long before you will be able to try the cable and Trinity System? I'm passing the demo EDB-1 along but will be purchasing one for myself for sure. I also plan on trying the Headway HE2 pickup at some point. The HE2 and K&K mini's would probably make a good dual source combo, we'll see. I've pretty much given up on the mic, I never have really used it anyway. Do you have any issue with the Trinity mics? How often do you use it and to what degree...also what volume levels?

Tonight I a/b'd the Headway again with my Ultrasound AG50, Baggs Padi and Bagss MixPro running it 50/50. The Trinity with the MixPro sounded good, the mic adds clarity and woodiness but that preamp is just week overall, have to max it out and still want more gain out of it. Wish I could have heard the Headway dual-sourced. But the EDB-1 still was King!

Lst thing I tried was running my Aphex Xciter with the EDB-1. First I ran it last and used it's DI, didn't work so hot. Then I plugged straight into the Xciter (K&K Pure's only) and then into the Headway. Wow!!!! Killer - probably the best acoustic tone I've had. The Aphex unit seems like a joke to a lot of people, until you try one. It adds clarity, makes your bass punch without adding lowend feedback and makes the highs crystal clear with no added harshness or quackiness. I should just give up the dual source and run with this setup. The Xciter surely has been a surprise for me, one of the best purchases I've made for my acoustic rig. It really takes your rig to the max no matter what preamp and pickup combo you are using or what level of a player you are.

+ +

+ =

Last edited by jamison162; 09-16-2009 at 10:19 PM.
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  #29  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:36 PM
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...I've pretty much given up on the mic, I never have really used it anyway. Do you have any issue with the Trinity mics? How often do you use it and to what degree...also what volume levels?
Hi jamison...
My good friend (and engineer) is coming over Sat, and I imagine I'll have the cable in hand by mid-next week if not sooner.

I use the internal mic all the time, have no feedback issues with it, and run it 50/50 volume with the pickup...sometimes more mic than pickup. I place my amp 3-4 feet behind me - shoulder high when I sit and just below shoulder high when I stand (it goes on a higher stand when I'm standing)

I never allow the guitar to be run through a wedge in front of me - the amp provides all the volume I need on stage, even aggressive stages.

Here's a couple pics from a summer gig we did out of doors in 2007...note the Raven preamp on the bench between us. This gig I used the feedback buster because the sound guy for the arena was trying to pump out bass over the top and the subwoofers were vibrating during sound checks...so I just stuck a feedback buster in for safety...most of the time I don't use or need any suppression in the soundhole.



Tell me about your rig please...

By the way, there is no crime in going single source.


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  #30  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:46 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Hi sdsr...
While that is an interesting question, on a personal level, my separate channel tone settings on my other preamps (which I set by ear with eyes closed) are nearly identical, so I don't have an issue.
Every internal mic I've ever used requires significant eq to work well with an SBT. Generally, I cut the bass and lower mids quite a bit. Without doing that, an internal mic is pretty useless for my uses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post

All I can tell you so far is with an external condenser mic (AT2021) and the pickup, the incorporated EQ was very good at tweaking it with minimal movement off ''FLAT''. In fact I was surprised at how good it sounds with everything just set flat with each source.
I prefer an external condenser over an internal one. They don't need much, if any, eq. When using an external mic, I change the eq settings a bit for the SBT (compared to the settings for the SBT when using an internal mic), for the best sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post

Perhaps good tone with flat settings is the ''unheard'' effect of proper impedance matching (someone suggested the switches didn't change anything noticeable for them).

Certainly impedance is an issue. I think other factors, such as the power amp, speakers and the room, play more of a role. If they are flat and smooth, less eq is needed. Put another way, eq is often need to compensate for less than ideal amps, speakers or room conditions.
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