Playing and singing...Argh!

[mcphersonnut]

Practice practice practice, try singing the songs and playing slower when you first start. Dont try to play fast songs fast play them slow so you can learn . It has helpt me in the past.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by stoney

Ah, Grasshopper! This is the secret! You CAN'T really concentrate on two things at once. I believe that if you are singing a song then it has to be the focus of your effort. For me, if the melody and lyrics are worth singing then they are worth being "up front." The guitar part has to be easy enough (at YOUR level of expertise) to be automatic when you are singing. I struggled with this for a long time when I started to fingerpick, especially with some of James Taylor's arrangements, but then realized that until I knew the guitar parts well enough to put them on autopilot I could not (and would not) sing the songs. Once I was able to "forget" the guitar parts I could put the proper effort into the lyrics and melody.

Learn the guitar part well enough be good accompaniment to the lyrics and then learn to sing the song. All will come together and, surprisingly enough, your guitar parts will be more relaxed, cleaner and fit the song better when you do this.

Also remember; most of the studio recordings you hear that have fancy guitar parts and complex vocals are recorded with instrumentals and vocals done seperately. Don't try to match these performances unless you are ready for a lot of frustration!

Now, when you can snatch the pebbles from my hand you will be ready to leave...

Sure. Sounds good on paper... I hope some of this helps. To quote George Burns, " There are two things I like to do; sing and drink Scotch. Most people would rather hear me drink Scotch."

Stoney

thanks, stoney. i appreciate the effort but i really do have a problem with multi-tasking. for example, i absolutely cannot drive and carry on a conversation at the same time. its downright dangerous and i've almost killed myself and my wife many times. now, i certainly drive enough that it should be an "auto-pilot" kind of thing, and god knows i talk too much (so that should also be on "auto-pilot"). but i can't do both at once. i, too, am a james taylor fan and know dozens of his songs like the back of my hand (some i've been playing for over 30 years). i can sing and play them at the same time to an extent, but not to the point of considering myself proficient at it. what you've said makes complete sense for normal brains. i think mine (and many others, as is evidenced by countless numbers of people who become bone-head drivers while on their cell phones) is a bit defficient in this regard. it hasn't been from lack of practice. thank god recording equipment eventually became affordable. now i do the "play guitar first, sing second" overdubbing thing and it works great for me. otherwise, i'd have quit playing years ago (actually, i did quit playing for about 5 years back in the 80's out of frustration. i picked it up again when i bought my first four track cassette recorder in 1986 and have been playing ever since).

there has been some great advice on this thread and much of it should work for the vast majority of "up and comers".

[Chicago Sandy]

Originally Posted by stoney

Ah, Grasshopper! This is the secret! You CAN'T really concentrate on two things at once. I believe that if you are singing a song then it has to be the focus of your effort. For me, if the melody and lyrics are worth singing then they are worth being "up front." The guitar part has to be easy enough (at YOUR level of expertise) to be automatic when you are singing.

Learn the guitar part well enough be good accompaniment to the lyrics and then learn to sing the song. All will come together and, surprisingly enough, your guitar parts will be more relaxed, cleaner and fit the song better when you do this.

I heartily concur. Back when I was starting out as a solo, I often got nervous thinking about hitting the wrong strings or fingering the wrong frets while singing. So I saved the fancy stuff (if any) for the intro--and even that took years. One thing on which my singing partner (who is by her own admission a "word person") and I agree is that in folk and country, everything must serve the song and its lyrics. If you have to strip the guitar part down to bare chord changes in order to let the song shine through, then you should do so. As you become more proficient, the fills, patterns and counterpoints will come more naturally to you. But when in doubt, give the vocal priority over the instrumental.

[fitness1]

good info here.....the keep it simple school of thought is a good place to start. Believe it or not, you will eventually get to the point where you have a hard time doing one without the other. I ALWAYS record the main track of any recording with the rhythm guitar and lead vocal.....I literally can't do it any other way. I forget the words without the guitar in my hands and drift on the guitar part without singing.

[takirb]

I always start off learning the guitar parts, then to incorporate the vocals i slow every verse down to one downstrum at each chord change. I practice at that a bit till I can find a good strum pattern and work on the speed. Even playing it slow and dull is sometimes enough to keep me working on it and not become too discouraged or lose interest.

[dfrivers]

Originally Posted by LindaW

I also want to add that once you're 'over the hump', you're 'over the hump', meaning that even when the music becomes more complex, you can still figure out how to sing with it much easier than when you started out.

That is incredibly encouraging, Linda. Thanks...

Originally Posted by stoney

Sure, Dave. Stop by some time and we'll work on it!

stoney

Yeah right. Thats like Bobcat Goldthwait asking for singing lessons from Pavarotti

Originally Posted by stoney

Ah, Grasshopper! This is the secret! You CAN'T really concentrate on two things at once. I believe that if you are singing a song then it has to be the focus of your effort. For me, if the melody and lyrics are worth singing then they are worth being "up front." The guitar part has to be easy enough (at YOUR level of expertise) to be automatic when you are singing. I struggled with this for a long time when I started to fingerpick, especially with some of James Taylor's arrangements, but then realized that until I knew the guitar parts well enough to put them on autopilot I could not (and would not) sing the songs. Once I was able to "forget" the guitar parts I could put the proper effort into the lyrics and melody.

Learn the guitar part well enough be good accompaniment to the lyrics and then learn to sing the song. All will come together and, surprisingly enough, your guitar parts will be more relaxed, cleaner and fit the song better when you do this.

Also remember; most of the studio recordings you hear that have fancy guitar parts and complex vocals are recorded with instrumentals and vocals done seperately. Don't try to match these performances unless you are ready for a lot of frustration!

Now, when you can snatch the pebbles from my hand you will be ready to leave...

Sure. Sounds good on paper... I hope some of this helps. To quote George Burns, " There are two things I like to do; sing and drink Scotch. Most people would rather hear me drink Scotch."

Stoney

I know we have had this conversation before. Why don't I listen to you more?! Makes good sense...Thanks.


Lots of recurring themes here. Should help a lot. Reminds me why I enjoy this forum so much. Thanks all.

[Guyute]

My advice is to concentrate more on the singing than on nailing the rhythm or the complex melody (on guitar).

If you want to sing and play, you really need to worry more about the singing than the playing. If you're playing for people, no one cares how good you are on guitar if you can't sing.

Sucks, but in my experience, it's the cold truth.

[valleyguy]

When I was starting out I played along with the record (OK, CD) until I was proficient in the song, then I'd play it alone, then I'd play it and sing together. And of course, practice......