GS mini or new Grand Theater?

[PeteyPower16]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

That is the original base model which for some reason Taylor isn’t making much of any more. However there are other versions of the GS Mini available: https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...se?series=1022

I just checked the specs of the base model, and it appears to have a sapele layered back and sides and a maple neck compared to various woods used for the back and sides, and necks of sapele/mahogany on the currently offered GS mini models. Not sure if there are other material or nuanced detail differences, but the maple neck stands out to me as a key feature from the base model that is discontinued.

Any thoughts why some models have mahogany necks and others sapele as a neck material? I know higher end Taylors have mahogany necks but not sure if it is a true upgrade but rather a perception. Sapele and mahogany are both very stable woods with mahogany being slightly more stable (less shrinkage) and possibly smoother, and sapele being harder/more durable—if I recall correctly.

[Taylor Ham]

Originally Posted by PeteyPower16

I just checked the specs of the base model, and it appears to have a sapele layered back and sides and a maple neck compared to various woods used for the back and sides, and necks of sapele/mahogany on the currently offered GS mini models. Not sure if there are other material or nuanced detail differences, but the maple neck stands out to me as a key feature from the base model that is discontinued.

Any thoughts why some models have mahogany necks and others sapele as a neck material? I know higher end Taylors have mahogany necks but not sure if it is a true upgrade but rather a perception. Sapele and mahogany are both very stable woods with mahogany being slightly more stable (less shrinkage) and possibly smoother, and sapele being harder/more durable—if I recall correctly.

Taylor is very environmentally conscious. Some of their neck wood choices may be based in supply, or testing alternative timbers to take pressure of some more commonly used woods. Unfigured maple is not a bad choice at all for necks, but for the fact it is slightly heavier and not brown. For a laminate guitar, aka all the mexican Taylors, matching the neck wood to the back and sides really doesnt affect tone too much. Who knows, we might see some urban ash necks too.

Bob Taylor mentioned that mahogany may be emerging as more sustainable than sapele again, since the tables have turned and there are sources of farmed mahogany vs unsustainably cut sapele.

[PeteyPower16]

Hi all, back to the original theme of this post, I was able to make it to Guitar Center today and try the GT. Here are my personal observations:

Overall: In my opinion, the grand theater is a grown-up guitar while the GS mini is almost a toy by comparison.

Visibility: The quality of the GT’s build’s is obvious. The wood patterns selected, appointments, and rosette all made the GT stand out visibly.

Playability: Even though the body sizes are similar, the longer neck on the GT is a noticeable advantage. The size fills a gap between full size guitars and travel guitars perfectly. It is not that it is neither: rather, it is both!

Tone: The GT’s solid back and sides resonated warmly and the guitar just felt more “alive” in comparison to playing and adjacent GS mini. This resonance felt much more like a full-size guitar, even if the tone was not quite as rich as a GA might be. I chalk that up to physical size, only. I didn’t find the guitar lacking in bass, just maybe “umph” or power (whatever that means?).

Caveat: I am not sure how much the lighter string gauge on the GT is improving its resonance and playability compared to the GS mini, both areas where I think the GT is stronger.

Price: I could see why this guitar cost more than double the cost of a GS mini. At close to that price point, I would probably just go for a 312 and call it a day, but I didn’t think it was overpriced for what it is.

Overall, I was impressed. It is not a mini guitar: it is a true top-of-the-line Taylor, just adapted for size and with some “humility” compared to the flashy more expensive American models. It is not on my “to buy” list as I already have a mini and plenty of acoustics to play, but if I were shopping for a high-quality small guitar and was not on a strict budget, my search would end here.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by PeteyPower16

Hi all, back to the original theme of this post, I was able to make it to Guitar Center today and try the GT. Here are my personal observations:

Overall: In my opinion, the grand theater is a grown-up guitar while the GS mini is almost a toy by comparison.

Visibility: The quality of the GT’s build’s is obvious. The wood patterns selected, appointments, and rosette all made the GT stand out visibly.

Playability: Even though the body sizes are similar, the longer neck on the GT is a noticeable advantage. The size fills a gap between full size guitars and travel guitars perfectly. It is not that it is neither: rather, it is both!

Tone: The GT’s solid back and sides resonated warmly and the guitar just felt more “alive” in comparison to playing and adjacent GS mini. This resonance felt much more like a full-size guitar, even if the tone was not quite as rich as a GA might be. I chalk that up to physical size, only. I didn’t find the guitar lacking in bass, just maybe “umph” or power (whatever that means?).

Caveat: I am not sure how much the lighter string gauge on the GT is improving its resonance and playability compared to the GS mini, both areas where I think the GT is stronger.

Price: I could see why this guitar cost more than double the cost of a GS mini. At close to that price point, I would probably just go for a 312 and call it a day, but I didn’t think it was overpriced for what it is.

Overall, I was impressed. It is not a mini guitar: it is a true top-of-the-line Taylor, just adapted for size and with some “humility” compared to the flashy more expensive American models. It is not on my “to buy” list as I already have a mini and plenty of acoustics to play, but if I were shopping for a high-quality small guitar and was not on a strict budget, my search would end here.

A Fair Review & Thanks!

[Guitartanzon]

yes , thanks for review.

I think the GT would be a long time keeper....and be played a lot.

[PeteyPower16]

For folks still interested in the comparison, in the latest Wood and Steel (volume 98, 2020 issue 3, page 20), there’s a full article on the GT and comparison photos with the GS mini and GC x12.

The article suggests on page 19-20
that, even with all solid woods, the key limitation in guitar sound is due to size, especially string scale length. “Usually we find that within the confines of an existing design, no matter how much we hotrod that, it doesn’t change it very much,” says Bob (quoting W&S from 2010).

This is consistent with the comments here about size and shape being the king consideration for tone even above wood selections. It explains why the GT is an upgrade to a GS mini but still not comparable to a full-sized guitar. From playing them in the store, I can verify that EQ and power differences between a GC x12, GA x14, and an original (not redesigned) GS x16 are significant. The difference between these sizes does not sound linear to me, as the 14 and 16 sound similar to each other compared to the 12, which also has a shorter scale length than the 14 and 16-original (though the x16 redesigned has same scale length as the GC). A DN or GP is deeper and richer and even more powerful still. I would speculate that the GT (and smaller) are limited by size even though the construction and solid wood selections are a step up.

[smic28]

In my experience, getting a full-bodied sound out of a very small-bodied guitar is an engineering challenge and usually costs a lot. Very small-bodied guitars usually sound boxy. I have not played a GT but I used to own a mini. For me, the mini was useful as a travel guitar - it played well but didn't sound all that great. I have a Santa Cruz 00, which is a great sounding guitar but also lacking in bass response compared to OM-sized guitars. I paid over 4K for that. I would be surprised if the GT comes close to the 00. In videos I have seen, the GT sounds good, but only if you are willing to accept its limitations. Its a matter of personal choice and reasonable expectations. That said, I think I want one!

[jonfields45]

I stopped into the local Guitar Center this afternoon to kill some time. Someone must have forgotten to tell them they were going bankrupt as they were busy putting out a lot of new stock which happened to include a Rosewood GS mini, two Koa GS minis, and even a GT!

I picked out the spruce top GS mini, the new GT, and a Martin 000XAE spruce top to run a rotation. All three guitars were similar in volume. The GT had a very even tone, the GS mini had a pronounced midrange, and the Martin split the difference. I think you could choose to like any of the three the best. I could probably find my way to the GT with a bit more time to train my ear.

The GT won my admiration for being light as a feather compared to the other two. It was a little disconcerting looking in the GT and see the white unstained Ash. The Eucalyptus fingerboard had a very nice looking grain. I assume Taylor knows how to stabilize that wood for this purpose.

To my eye, V-class looks like old fashioned Orville Gibson tone bars (for more recent examples that predate V-class consider the T5 and Godin A6 Ultra). C class looks like a single tone bar. The GT's top had a tighter radius than the GS mini and much tighter than the Martin. That could be the current state of it's humidification, but it looked to me like a design decision to stiffen the single tone bar top. If it is for tone or structure reasons I can't guess. The top showed perfect side-to-side symmetry and no hint of only one side getting the tone bar (at least for now).

Overall I think it is a really nice little guitar to plug the missing 0 or Parlor size in their USA lineup.

[scotchnspeed]

I mean this honestly, as I am getting confused.

The GT is 15", right? In other words, the lower bout of a 000/OM. I've read several saying this is a parlor/0/wee sized, but in reality it is a full sized body with an oddly short scale.

If Taylor wanted to compete with those sizes, then it should have gone 1" smaller than the GS mini, not larger??

[Willie_D]

Originally Posted by scotchnspeed

I mean this honestly, as I am getting confused.

The GT is 15", right? In other words, the lower bout of a 000/OM. I've read several saying this is a parlor/0/wee sized, but in reality it is a full sized body with an oddly short scale.

If Taylor wanted to compete with those sizes, then it should have gone 1" smaller than the GS mini, not larger??

From Wood & Steel:

With the guitar’s scale length defined, Andy set out to design a new body style with a set of proportions between the GS Mini and Grand Concert. He envisioned a non-cutaway shape and borrowed the curves of Taylor’s large Grand Orchestra body, scaling them down appropriately. While the width of the lower bout (15”) is the same as the Grand Concert, the body length (18-1/2”) is an inch shorter, and the body depth (3-3/4” measured at the soundhole) is shallower than the GC (4-3/8”).

[PeteyPower16]

Originally Posted by Taylor Ham

Long story short, stick with a full medium set on the mini unless your fingers are really sore. It gets the short scale back to a sort of goldilocks zone where steel string guits tend to work. I only made the original recommendation since alot of people try lights and are disappointed.

I have played with various combos of many string gauges. I have pretty good grip strength so I have no issues with using a full medium set on a full scale. However, I wouldn't put mediums on every guitar, because some of them will actually compress the tone and choke up with too much tension. Not so with the GSm.

If you look at the string tension in your preferred units of weight, you'll see that the ADG strings usually have the most tension in standard sets, with the E, b and e strings lagging behind. I like having a more robust low E and thicker trebles, so I look for sets known as "true medium" or "new medium" or "balanced tension" when I'm feeling rich. Something like d'addario's EJ24. It allows more aggressive picking. SRV is famous for having the same idea with his custom (crazy heavy for electric) gauges.

Thanks for the helpful background! I did have a spare set of lights (12-53) hanging around so I’ve tried the 12, 16, and 24 strings only to duplicate light-mediums (12-56). Although the high strings do not drive the top very much when picking these three strings, when strumming it keeps the higher notes a bit quieter and “jangly” rather than the mediums (13-56), which are so resonant with the top frequency that it leads to a sound that is midrange “droney.” To me, the overall tone is perhaps more balanced for my PARTICULAR spruce GS mini, even if weaker on the high strings when finger picking. I will try this for a week and then switch back to all mediums if this is just my ear playing tricks on me/confirmation bias, and then later on I decide that 12-56 lacks balance and power.

One time several months ago, I did try the equivalent of HD lights on the GS mini (the opposite of what I’ve just strung: 13-53). This did not sound good: dominant mids and highs with weak and watered down bass. I won’t try this again!