Click track or not?

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I’ve played, and hung out with, with enough great bass players and drummers to know that we guitar players are notorious for our sense of time and pocket -not in a good way. When I used to play with the late great Carlton Jackson on drums https://youtu.be/uQjYDNHvB4g?si=BE6dt6M7CRCKICeT I would listen to a metronome in the car on the way to the gig because he scared me a little And I stilled rushed at times.. But I digress.
:

Great music to start off my morning! Loved this session. Thanks for Sharing Eric!

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by highvibrational

Exactly. I want to find a drum beat that inspires.

Originally Posted by highvibrational

Ultimately I am looking for my most high-vibe take when I record. Beauty, expression and strength are all important to me. The clicks I've used have made me feel hemmed in/irritated, so it's a matter of finding the right metronome sound or just doing away with it completely.

A lot of great suggestions from great musicians like Eric who really have the timing thing down.

However I am like you Highvibrational, Click tracks are just not inspirational. I have though, started to get use to them as others have suggested. I still think that drum loops might be the better solution for myself. And of course in your DAW you can so easily change the tempo up or down.
I thought dnf777 suggestion of using the Boss DR 01s is certainly a possibility. Looks like it has a line out and you could plug it into your interface and then into the DAW...But I think a drum program would be easier and free up a interface channel. But certainly a fun live practice tool.
https://www.boss.info/us/products/dr-01s/

One step that has not been mentioned yet...is to first find out what Tempo/Speed you are playing at naturally without any timing device. When I write a new song, I find a tempo that corresponds to the theme's mood. You certainly would not play McCartneys " Yesterday " at a high tempo. it would destroy the vibe. Even the tiniest change of faster or slower could destroy the songs intention. And I would assume it is the same for you and your playing style. You have a speed for certain songs that lets you express the song in the way you like.

Yes you can just manually adjust the tempo. But not always easy to find the exact timing you are using. In Logic, there is something called Smart Tempo. You simply record a raw track, playing like you would without a metronone or click track. And it will show you your tempo...and also the variations of your tempo. It will take a little bit of time to read up and learn how to use it. But well worth the time. If you don't use logic, There are also other inexpensive programs that you can purchase that will do relatively the same thing.

[highvibrational]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

A lot of great suggestions from great musicians like Eric who really have the timing thing down.

However I am like you Highvibrational, Click tracks are just not inspirational. I have though, started to get use to them as others have suggested. I still think that drum loops might be the better solution for myself. And of course in your DAW you can so easily change the tempo up or down.
I thought dnf777 suggestion of using the Boss DR 01s is certainly a possibility. Looks like it has a line out and you could plug it into your interface and then into the DAW...But I think a drum program would be easier and free up a interface channel. But certainly a fun live practice tool.
https://www.boss.info/us/products/dr-01s/

One step that has not been mentioned yet...is to first find out what Tempo/Speed you are playing at naturally without any timing device. When I write a new song, I find a tempo that corresponds to the theme's mood. You certainly would not play McCartneys " Yesterday " at a high tempo. it would destroy the vibe. Even the tiniest change of faster or slower could destroy the songs intention. And I would assume it is the same for you and your playing style. You have a speed for certain songs that lets you express the song in the way you like.

Yes you can just manually adjust the tempo. But not always easy to find the exact timing you are using. In Logic, there is something called Smart Tempo. You simply record a raw track, playing like you would without a metronone or click track. And it will show you your tempo...and also the variations of your tempo. It will take a little bit of time to read up and learn how to use it. But well worth the time. If you don't use logic, There are also other inexpensive programs that you can purchase that will do relatively the same thing.

Thank you for your thoughts. I just looked into Drumgenius app and found very little that sounded inspiring to me there, unfortunately. I believe my problem is that I see these "regulating forces" as a fascist regime trying to dictate my freeflowing impulses. Or, at the very least, it's "interference." I really do feel it's important for the musician to feel relaxed and at ease and maybe I will forfeit timing for enjoyment. I perform a lot live and know that most people are fine with what I do and it's a result of the freedom I give myself to be in the moment.

[mr. beaumont]

Probably best to keep blazing your own trail at this point then...since you switch feels and time signatures on a whim, you might not ever find a click or drumbeat that lines up to what you are doing consistently...and that doesn't have to be a bad thing, as a solo performer, if what you are doing works, let it work, and solve the problems of speeding up with practice and time.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Probably best to keep blazing your own trail at this point then...since you switch feels and time signatures on a whim, you might not ever find a click or drumbeat that lines up to what you are doing consistently...and that doesn't have to be a bad thing, as a solo performer, if what you are doing works, let it work, and solve the problems of speeding up with practice and time.

I believe you can program sections to speed up or slow down, even change timing signatures in Smart Tempo.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

I believe you can program sections to speed up or slow down, even change timing signatures in Smart Tempo.

That's quite versatile, although I don't think it would help the OP as it sounds as if she may be changing tempos and time signatures improvisationally, not in a set structure.

[highvibrational]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

That's quite versatile, although I don't think it would help the OP as it sounds as if she may be changing tempos and time signatures improvisationally, not in a set structure.

Yes, I like the freedom of being whimsical and I'm not sure if being "regular" will ever be a higher priority. I will try when I can, but it's sort of like practicing multiplication tables or something like that. I like Edith Piaf's singing and feel she really takes liberties, but for expressive effect.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

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So what I have been thinking about is adding a = no frills drum beat, as my click track.( I have already done this once creating a drum beat using my Damage 2 Orchestra drums) But that was a bit work to generate in perfect timing and then replicate it over and over.

When I need to use a click, I usually use Logic's virtual drummer, which is easy to set up, and to find a matching feel. Just more fun and musical than playing to a click, most of the time. You do have to be careful tho, that you're still creating the feel you want, not letting the drummer do it for you. I remember asking Stephen Bennett once (in regards to one of his groovier pieces) how he got the groove into his playing - he replied "You put it there" :-) And I think that applies whether playing to a click or a drummer. Assuming the drums won't be part of the final product, you have to make sure the track you record still carries the groove once you mute the drums, and that the drummer wasn't covering up the lack of feel in the part you're playing. It takes a lot of practice to use clicks, or drums, as a tempo guide only.

What I often do for solo guitar stuff, is practice a lot with a metronome, and possibly even record a few takes with a click, so I can listen to how I'm doing. But then kill the click when I really record. If I, or someone else, will be adding parts, then I usually have to stick with the click/drum for recording the initial track.

[Brent Hahn]

There are things you can try to make playing with a click easier. Doubletime, half time, just on one and three, just on two and four... play around with it.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by Sasquatchian

And I also remember in reading Tamara Saviano's Guy Clark biography where Guy (and maybe Townes too) realized that he needed to up his playing skills on stage and took some time off to woodshed with a metronome just to work on his timing and that it really helped him as as stage performer.

I think of the metronome as a tool to help refine one's sense of rhythmic precision. Used correctly it can increase awareness, which can increase ability.

Used incorrectly it can frustrate or cause rigid playing.

It's analogous to drills done by a top athlete. Of course they don't *enjoy* the drill - it's not the actual expression of the sport.
The best don't get caught up in those mind games, they just knuckle down in the name of improving their skills so they can play better.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by highvibrational

Yes, I like the freedom of being whimsical and I'm not sure if being "regular" will ever be a higher priority. I will try when I can, but it's sort of like practicing multiplication tables or something like that. I like Edith Piaf's singing and feel she really takes liberties, but for expressive effect.

Right, and I think as long as you intend to stay a solo performer, you won't have an issue. I do think if you ever desire to play with others you'll have to figure out what it is you're doing and communicate it, and do it consistently.

[BoxCar_Joe]

Click track? For me Yes.
I obsess over keeping in time while still flowing naturally.
So challenging.

[Corso]

I like to use an IOS musical notation app "Notion" when putting together guitar arrangements. That can then pretty much act as a metronome for me. Sometimes when recording I have the score playing in the Notion app and listen to it with one earphone whilst playing. It can be quite rigid but definitely helps me get the timing absolutely spot on. The app is great for trying out new ideas and hearing what it should sound like.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by BoxCar_Joe

Click track? For me Yes.
I obsess over keeping in time while still flowing naturally.
So challenging.

...and therein lies the problem with a click track.

A click definitely helps when we need to put together music like we're building with Legos, but very few elements of nature have anything approaching the strict mechanical timing of a click.

I've been playing music with other folks for more than 50 years and the process of subtle timing interaction with other players is part of the enjoyment, and sometimes frustration, in the playing of music.

It's all good of course, so metronome use (or not) ends up being preference, tempered with the need for precision if we're using cut, copy, and paste music production.

If I go see a solo performer probably the last thing I'd ever think about was the timing.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Right, and I think as long as you intend to stay a solo performer, you won't have an issue.

I disagree, sort of. To me, playing solo with good time, or at least the awareness of it, legitimizes the performer and the song. Makes the listener feel like you know what you're doing and you're confident about it, like you own the stage.

Case in point, listen to the first couple Dylan albums versus just about anything comparable by anyone from around that time. He's rock solid, you can sit down and play along with him. A lot of his lyrics are nutty, he doesn't have a conventionally good voice, but he's totally steady and confident and you buy into it.