Home recording help

[mizchief100]

Hey all! I'm new to recording, I've been acquiring a small home setup over time and was wondering of any suggestions for optimizing my recording with what I have or if there is possibly anything additional I should get.

Right now my setup consists of:
Cole Clark fl3 fed into JDI box
MXL V67G mic
Both are fed into Scarlett 2i2 AI which I record and edit on my computer (reaper or garageband)

One specific question I had was whether I should record the guitar over both the mic and the pickups?

Thanks in advance!

[Staredge]

Can't help much, but I have read that recording both DI and mic'd is a good idea. Then you can blend them together in the mix to get a better sound. Have you heard of Tape Op?? Free recording magazine. Great reading, even if I don't fully understand most of it.

[Doug Young]

This depends on the sound you want. The best sound *usually* comes from a mic - and even better, 2 mics, in stereo. Even the best pickup sound usually pales in comparison to the worst mic. But some people do blend in a pickup, sometimes it creates a more direct punchy sound that could be what you want. Some studios record a pickup as a "safety" in case something went wrong with the mic. In some home studios you have too much noise or such bad acoustics that the pickup ends up being a better choice. These days, you do even hear commercial recordings sometimes recorded with pickups - that "quack" sound has become a feature for some people. It'd be easier to make decisions if you have a goal - some tracks you'd like to sound like. Then go from there to figure out how they got the sound. Or just record something and see if you like it. Lots and lots of experimenting is usually the key.

[Legolas1971]

Doug is right on. Depends what you're trying to achieve but for me recording in stereo with mics is the only way. I've tried just about every pickup on the
market and they all fall short. The only thing I'll track direct and with mics to blend is bass guitar.

[MikeBmusic]

+++1 to everything from Doug and Legolas!

As mentioned, a lot depends on your recording set up - how your room sounds and what acoustic treatment you have done in it. Tape Op is a good (free!) read, but for more exact info on recording, try the forums at homerecording.com. There's a whole thread on acoustic recording techniques HERE.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

These days, you do even hear commercial recordings sometimes recorded with pickups - that "quack" sound has become a feature for some people. It'd be easier to make decisions if you have a goal - some tracks you'd like to sound like.

Admittedly and obviously this tends to be a very traditionalist kinda forum. It stands to reason then most of us tend to gravitate towards the whole idea of using mics to recreate (or create) natural guitar sounds. It is however interesting and worth noting, some absolutely have created a sound for themselves using a pickup only scenario. I've mentioned this before (mainly because I really like his music) but Craig Chaquico made a Grammy winning career out of a direct to board, plugged in acoustic guitar sound. His reasons (at least in the embryonic stage) were somewhat similar to all the reasons anyone here might want to forgo a mic and plug-in. Ease of use ect. It went on however to blossom into a situation where he could pitch the headphones, turn up a bit (or a lot ), use some contemporary harmonizing, chorus and reverb and ultimately turn jams and ideas into songs. I still kinda like the whole idea. Admittedly it's not a pure acoustic guitar recording but I still listen to the 1993 "Acoustic Planet" release as it's be able to keep my attention all these years.

A mic'd sound is probably a grand majority of most of our goals. But there are creative alternatives and certainly Chacquico did a great job of just that.

[ljguitar]

Hi mizchief...

First, Hello and Welcome to the Forum! I do realize you joined a couple years ago, and just kicked off a thread…so I assume you've been reading/lurking in the background.

I have never liked to tone of recordings where there is blended pickup with mic over just recording guitars with mics (and have recorded them that way at customer requests when I owned/operated a small acoustic studio).

Mics alone gave me everything I ever expected and wanted from guitars.

It's a cheap (free) experiment…so why not give it a try and tell us which you like?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

A mic'd sound is probably a grand majority of most of our goals. But there are creative alternatives and certainly Chacquico did a great job of just that.

Yeah, I'd call that more of an electric guitar approach with a guitar that happens to look like an acoustic :-) I find Craig's sound to be nails on a blackboard, but there are certainly cases, like people who use lots of effects, where it makes perfect sense. I wonder how Monte Montgomery records, for example.

One of Andy McKee's recent CDs was recorded with 1 mic+k&k pickup. He did the recording at home, but sent it off to be mixed, so he doesn't know what was actually done - maybe in the end, the pickup wasn't even used, hard to say. Another guitarist who records with a pickup is Adrian Legg - many of his very traditional-sounding recordings are done with his little solid-body electric run thru a VG-88. It's hard to tell they're not acoustic.

But I suspect the original question was not coming from the perspective of someone with racks of processing gear to create a complex electric/acoustic sound, but more of a "how to I record my acoustic in my bedroom" question. I'd start with mics, 1 if that's all you have. If that doesn't work, try blending the pickup in, and/or read up on recording, there are tons and tons of resources on the web on this topic. Mostly, dive in and get started with whatever you have. Share recordings here and people may be able to make suggestions, if they (and you) know what sound you are shooting for.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yeah, I'd call that more of an electric guitar approach with a guitar that happens to look like an acoustic :-) I find Craig's sound to be nails on a blackboard, but there are certainly cases, like people who use lots of effects, where it makes perfect sense. I wonder how Monte Montgomery records, for example.

One of Andy McKee's recent CDs was recorded with 1 mic+k&k pickup. He did the recording at home, but sent it off to be mixed, so he doesn't know what was actually done - maybe in the end, the pickup wasn't even used, hard to say. Another guitarist who records with a pickup is Adrian Legg - many of his very traditional-sounding recordings are done with his little solid-body electric run thru a VG-88. It's hard to tell they're not acoustic.

But I suspect the original question was not coming from the perspective of someone with racks of processing gear to create a complex electric/acoustic sound, but more of a "how to I record my acoustic in my bedroom" question. I'd start with mics, 1 if that's all you have. If that doesn't work, try blending the pickup in, and/or read up on recording, there are tons and tons of resources on the web on this topic. Mostly, dive in and get started with whatever you have. Share recordings here and people may be able to make suggestions, if they (and you) know what sound you are shooting for.

No, no agree with all of the above. Although I would add (despite him being in the class of guitar players I'd describe as utterly spectacular) Monte has never been too far from the old Alvarez System 500 piezo rigs. Even Michael Hedges got pretty darn pickupy but it still was a sound I really loved, especially when it was at some small club here in town and I was there I guess I still kinda like "new age-ish" stuff. Ed Gerhard occasionally get's his sound kinda effects soaked and I do love that as well. All of my comments are just food for thought though. My first love is the raw sound of a mic'd acoustic but I certainly wouldn't turn my back on someone who's come up with another Hedges-like recorded sound

[KevWind]

I too am a big fan of Chaquico even though I don't personally play that way.
I find " Acoustic Highway" a superb listen particularly on a road trip

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

No, no agree with all of the above. Although I would add (despite him being in the class of guitar players I'd describe as utterly spectacular) Monte has never been too far from the old Alvarez System 500 piezo rigs. Even Michael Hedges got pretty darn pickupy but it still was a sound I really loved, especially when it was at some small club here in town and I was there I guess I still kinda like "new age-ish" stuff. Ed Gerhard occasionally get's his sound kinda effects soaked and I do love that as well. All of my comments are just food for thought though. My first love is the raw sound of a mic'd acoustic but I certainly wouldn't turn my back on someone who's come up with another Hedges-like recorded sound

Hedges' recordings vary. Sometimes he just recorded using his pickups he used when playing live - 2 FRAPs and a Sunrise (e.g., Baal T’shuvah). Sometimes he recorded with mics only (e.g., Layover, IIRC). Sometimes he recorded with his pickups and mics (e.g., Aerial Boundaries). Most of his recordings were done in a studio, or at a friend's house, etc. Some were recorded live.

[GuitarsFromMars]

I love the sound of large diaphragm condenser mics with an acoustic guitar. It's a great process with lots of depth. There are other ways to do it, too.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

… Another guitarist who records with a pickup is Adrian Legg - many of his very traditional-sounding recordings are done with his little solid-body electric run thru a VG-88. It's hard to tell they're not acoustic.

Hi Doug…
I'm guessing you are likely aware of this, but the Roland VG-88 (played one for 5 years) uses a hex pickup (each string is sensed individually), and it is run through a sophisticated guitar modeler, but it's nothing like using the pickup in an acoustic to record with (my unit & guitar went into an air flight Anvil case that weighed over 30 pounds). I guess it's somewhat like playing through a mag pickup.

I drove mine with an American Strat Plus.

I even recorded with it, but in the end the touch and dynamics of my steel string acoustics were superior. It was the total lack of touch that drove me back to nearly full time acoustic. (It was like playing grand piano on an electronic keyboard). Recordings sounded awesome, but after playing it so much I began to lose interest.




°

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Doug…
I'm guessing you are likely aware of this, but the Roland VG-88 (played one for 5 years) uses a hex pickup (each string is sensed individually), and it is run through a sophisticated guitar modeler, but it's nothing like using the pickup in an acoustic to record with (my unit & guitar went into an air flight Anvil case that weighed over 30 pounds). I guess it's somewhat like playing through a mag pickup.

Yeah, I've played with them a bit. Adrian travels with 2 giant and heavy trunks full of gear, just so he can carry a guitar small enough to throw in the overhead :-) He does get a nice sound, but for recording, I'd rather use a mic. The point was, yes, there are people who use pickups, often for a very specific sound (another example would be Steven King, with his sideways mag picking up just the 6th string, and run thru an octave pedal) that requires essentially an electric approach.

I did one recording some years ago with mic+pickup, where I found the pickup added some beef I couldn't get any other way, and that seemed to work ok, so I wouldn't rule anything out, but generally I don't find much use for a pickup for the sounds I want. Others may have different taste. But blending in the pickup (an ES) worked ok here:

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yeah, I've played with them a bit. Adrian travels with 2 giant and heavy trunks full of gear, just so he can carry a guitar small enough to throw in the overhead :-) He does get a nice sound, but for recording, I'd rather use a mic. The point was, yes, there are people who use pickups, often for a very specific sound (another example would be Steven King, with his sideways mag picking up just the 6th string, and run thru an octave pedal) that requires essentially an electric approach.

I did one recording some years ago with mic+pickup, where I found the pickup added some beef I couldn't get any other way, and that seemed to work ok, so I wouldn't rule anything out, but generally I don't find much use for a pickup for the sounds I want. Others may have different taste. But blending in the pickup (an ES) worked ok here:

Yea Doug. I mean I really, really love this. For me much better than just "ok". There is an up front immediacy here that I love and that a mic only scenario simply couldn't provide. Sometimes that upfront-ness (what ever that actually may or may not mean) just seems to keep my attention. Of course the pickup doesn't hurt the low end presence either and that, in the end, just feels good. I suspect the 8 string bari also plays a positive role. This recording also seems prime for heavier effects if one were so inclined, although I know you're not)..

On one hand I can sit down and listen to an entire CD of fabulously recorded, mic'd only multi-instrument projects. Sometimes endlessly. I could for example listen to the Punch Brothers most recent recordings for days on end. AKUS stuff as well. On the other hand take even the best of any solo, mic'd only guitarist projects and my interest sometimes wanders amazingly fast. Perhaps it's A.D.D. There's just something however about old Hedges stuff that keeps my attention. Maybe that it's more orchestral in approach. I feel the same way about Craig. The guitar "sound" is not great but the CD Acoustic Planet still works for me sonically and keeps my attention.

This recording you posted however is a great example of the idea I was trying to convey.