Now that I switched to GC, I'm contemplating a new variable: 12/14 fret

[nolegsfngrpickn]

I've read the various discussions on 12 vs 14 fret here, there is some good information in them.

I recently switched from the Taylor GS Mini as my main guitar to a GC size because the super short scale was a little too limiting, especially when capoing.

With my 14-fret 322ce, I definitely feel a little awkward with the reach my left hand has to make fretting and playing the open register. I have a 12-fret Cordoba classical with a cutaway, and it's a definitely a lot more comfortable to play; having a full scale length but with the reach that's very similar to the GS Mini.

I always have two steel strings of identical or close-to-identical models, one for standard tuning stuff and one for alternate tunings.

I'm curious what you guys think I should do. I read in other threads that 12-fretters make alternate tunings a little more difficult and too slinky when it gets to dropped tunings (although I think that could be remedied by saddle/nut setup, right?). I'm also not sure how a Taylor 12 fret would be any different, other than reach, because the scale lengths on both models are identical; the bridges are simply in different places.

I'm considering getting a 322ce 12-fret for most of my fingerstyle playing. I do play with a capo quite a bit, and the highest I've ever gone is 7th fret. The cutaway would still give me higher access, yet the trade off of 2 less frets completely clear for easier playability might be worth it. For my other guitar which will live in alternate tunings I was thinking of keeping the 14-fretter. I guess if I ever "needed" 14 clear frets for something I would have that option on deck.

[varmonter]

Im a big fan of 12 fret guitars. They have a unique
sound and shorter scale is nice. Ive never noticed
a difference in drop tunings and ive tuned down
to C on some tunes.

[guitargeak99]

My 322 12 Fret is my favorite guitar. It's really light, and is good with finger style, arpeggio picking, and moderate strumming.
If I dig into it with hard strumming, she'll muddy up. That not what she's made for.

Mine does not have a cutaway, and I wish it did.
I have light strings on it - I tried once dropping the tuning down a full step and......eh. She just didn't sound that great.
Of course it I was going to leave it tuned down all the time, then I could run mediums on it and it would probably sound fine.
That's why I have my Larrivee - standard scale lets me dig in with a pick and sounds good in lower tunings.

Good luck

[jpmist]

Originally Posted by nolegsfngrpickn

I read in other threads that 12-fretters make alternate tunings a little more difficult and too slinky when it gets to dropped tunings.

If that's a concern, note that most of Larrivee's 12 frets are 25+" standard scale.

A spruce/mahogany OO 12 fret would be an interesting pair with your 322. Two pretty different tone profiles and the OO would actually be louder, at least that's how it is for me. Larrivee set up as easy to play as Taylors, but cutaways are custom orders only.

[jaymarsch]

I have an interesting combination. I own a 12 fret long scale (25.4") grand concert and am awaiting delivery on a short scale (25") 14 fret grand concert - ish sized instrument. Of course, as you know from hanging out here on the forum, it depends on a variety of different variables to achieve what it is you are looking for in terms of tone and feel.

My 12 fret grant concert is cocobolo and German spruce so it has a sweet brilliance to it with a nice low end and I can use altered tunings no problem. I can use both medium and light gauge strings on it but usually use 12-14s.

The 14 fret guitar is giving me a different flavor as it will be mahogany and German spruce. I spoke to the luthier specifically about what I wanted in this guitar and we spent some time chatting about scale length, 12 vs 14 frets and bridge material. Since I wanted this guitar to have more fundamental punch and clarity, he recommended going with the short scale 14 fret.

I share all of this to say that if you know what it is you are looking for in tone then getting a chance to play different ones can inform your ears and hands which hits those marks. If you can keep the 14 fretter, I think that is a great idea. Gives you more options moving forward.

Hope this helps but ultimately I think that your ears and hands will give you the best answer.

Best,
Jayne

[mawmow]

I believe you actually looked at all the aspects. You can understand why I own so many guitars : sound, sound, sound and different repertoires. But it means different scales and 12 as well as 14 fretters and some with cutaway because I sometimes need to get beyond twelvth fret.

I kept in mind you play much with a capo. Longer scale need larger finger spacing, espacially for the index finger : you can get it with exercises fretting first four frets with a finger on each, the thumb (behind the neck) facing the middle finger. I have average hands and can testify it works.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by nolegsfngrpickn

I've read the various discussions on 12 vs 14 fret here, there is some good information in them.

I'm curious what you guys think I should do. I read in other threads that 12-fretters make alternate tunings a little more difficult and too slinky when it gets to dropped tunings (although I think that could be remedied by saddle/nut setup, right?). I'm also not sure how a Taylor 12 fret would be any different, other than reach, because the scale lengths on both models are identical; the bridges are simply in different places.

There should be no difference between a 12 and 14-fretter when it comes to alternate tuning so long as the scale lengths are the same. People in threads often confuse the effects of scale length with that of the number of frets clear. I guess because many 12-fretters have a shorter scale legnth.

Me, I like shorter scales, 25," 24.9'" 24.75." and I play in open tunings a lot.

You already hit on the actual issue of 12 v 14s, that of playing up the neck. And the solution: either also keep a 14 around or have a cutaway.

Can't help you with the model you are looking at, as I've never played it. Sorry.

Best of luck with the hunt.

TW

[nolegsfngrpickn]

Thanks everyone. I think I'm going to start with eating the cost and picking up a 12-fretter, same instrument. Then I'll be able to see which one I like and sell the one I don't prefer!

I kinda have GAS from joining this forum, but I always sell the guitars when I move on, so I never have more than fit on my wall hangers

[sdelsolray]

Ergonomics are very important, and the relative positions of (i) the neck and fingerboard and (ii) your left arm system (i.e., shoulder, elbow, wrist and hand as affected by the lengths of your upper arm and lower arm) need to be within an optimal range of usefulness.

The 12/14 fret variable can have a large impact on the relation of your left arm system and the neck/fingerboard. An inch or two can easily do this.

For some 12 fret guitars, the difference is not that much (because the guitar body itself is longer and absorbs the difference). The difference is greater when it is the bridge that is moved towards the tail to compensate for the difference.