Replace GrandTune with Waverly

[AeroUSA]

Bruce said this before “Because the string shaft of the Waverly tuner is too fat to go through the hole in the Grand Tune bushing.

Grand Tune bushing hole 6.0mm - Waverly shaft 6.32mm
__________________”

So will the Waverly fit or not? Stew Mac told me they would.

[Monsoon1]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Why do you need shims? Is it a problem if there is a slight gap?

It can be. You do want a firm fit around the bushing. The key is going to get a lot of stress put on it over the years.
But don't let that concern you. That gauge material in a size around .003" will cut super easy with scissors. It's so thin you could tear it with your hands.

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Why do you need shims? Is it a problem if there is a slight gap?

If they don't fit in firmly they can fall out.
They are a 'push-fit' bushing.
Held in place by being a firm fit in the hole.

Removing the old bushings also requires care - do it wrong and you'll pull wood away from the headstock - I know because I did it .... luckily it was just a $50 guitar ... but lesson learned!

[Monsoon1]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Bruce said this before “Because the string shaft of the Waverly tuner is too fat to go through the hole in the Grand Tune bushing.

Grand Tune bushing hole 6.0mm - Waverly shaft 6.32mm
__________________”

So will the Waverly fit or not? Stew Mac told me they would.

You're confusing two parts of this problem. The waverly shaft will not fit in the grand tune bushings. But this doesn't matter. You're going to use the bushings that come with the Waverly tuners. So the only important dimension is hole size.
The Waverly bushing is 6 thousandths of an inch smaller than the existing holes. So the bushing absolutely will drop right in. However as I stated it could be a loose fit. So you might have to shim it.
I hope this makes sense to you.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by Monsoon1

You're confusing two parts of this problem. The waverly shaft will not fit in the grand tune bushings. But this doesn't matter. You're going to use the bushings that come with the Waverly tuners. So the only important dimension is hole size.
The Waverly bushing is 6 thousandths of an inch smaller than the existing holes. So the bushing absolutely will drop right in. However as I stated it could be a loose fit. So you might have to shim it.
I hope this makes sense to you.

It does but are you sure the bushings are included?

Stew Mac told me I could leave the existing bushings and just attach the Waverly tuner. I guess they were wrong.

[Monsoon1]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

It does but are you sure the bushings are included?

Stew Mac told me I could leave the existing bushings and just attach the Waverly tuner. I guess they were wrong.

The Waverly set does come with bushings, and you want to use them.

[Monsoon1]

Go back and reread Brucebub's first post. He gives you all the numbers you need to understand this.
The hole size difference is .16mm which is .006"

[JayBee1404]

If the headstock hole size is different by only a few thousandths of an inch, wouldn't swabbing glue (CA or wood-glue) around the inside of the hole work? Allow it to dry overnight, check if the smaller bushing fits, if not repeat the glue-swabbing/drying process and retry.

I've used this method several times to snug up the fit of Waverley bushing in over-large holes.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[AeroUSA]

I just can’t get over how awful the Grand Tunes are. I’ve had ones that were too stiff, too loose and now ones where the logo is loose and rattling. They are total garbage.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I just can’t get over how awful the Grand Tunes are. I’ve had ones that were too stiff, too loose and now ones where the logo is loose and rattling. They are total garbage.

Get the Waverly tuners, and just leave the Grand Tune bushings in.

If the Waverly tuner shafts fit, fine.

If the Waverly shaft doesn't fit then ream the GT bushings out a little bit with a piece of dowel & fine sand paper. If necessary get a round file to do it.

On paper the numbers are incredibly close.

You're going to toss the GT's in any case, right, so experiment.

HE

[Monsoon1]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I just can’t get over how awful the Grand Tunes are. I’ve had ones that were too stiff, too loose and now ones where the logo is loose and rattling. They are total garbage.

I've only used one set of them, but all 6 tuners were excellent.
Is this guitar still under warranty? If so it would be worth the trouble to get them replaced.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by Monsoon1

I've only used one set of them, but all 6 tuners were excellent.
Is this guitar still under warranty? If so it would be worth the trouble to get them replaced.

Schaller keep sending me replacements and they seem to be worse. I’ve had guitars where they are fine but I can’t get a good set on my gigging guitar. I’ve emailed them a video of the issues, just seems crazy to me that I can’t get a working set.

[JayBee1404]

When you install the new Grandtunes, do you ensure that the baseplate is pushed as far towards the nut as the screws will allow? I found that this was the counter-intuitive answer to problems with Waverlys on my guitars, which turned freely when not under load, but which became 'stiff' when load, in the form of string-tension, came on to the post.

The explanation I was given (and I don't recall who passed it on to me), and which I initially found counter-intuitive, was that by pushing the baseplate towards the nut when tightening the mounting-screws, the post is brought close(r) to the bushing, and the bushing supports the post when load comes on - thus keeping the post more or less vertical and the gears correctly aligned and meshed. The 'stiffness' is apparently caused, not by the post touching the bushing, but by the mis-alignment of the gearing caused by the canting of the post.

Just a thought...

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

When you install the new Grandtunes, do you ensure that the baseplate is pushed as far towards the nut as the screws will allow? I found that this was the counter-intuitive answer to problems with Waverlys on my guitars, which turned freely when not under load, but which became 'stiff' when load, in the form of string-tension, came on to the post.

The explanation I was given (and I don't recall who passed it on to me), and which I initially found counter-intuitive, was that by pushing the baseplate towards the nut when tightening the mounting-screws, the post is brought close(r) to the bushing, and the bushing supports the post when load comes on - thus keeping the post more or less vertical and the gears correctly aligned and meshed. The 'stiffness' is apparently caused, not by the post touching the bushing, but by the mis-alignment of the gearing caused by the canting of the post.

Just a thought...

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

I will try that but it doesn’t explain the loose logo plate...

[Monsoon1]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I will try that but it doesn’t explain the loose logo plate...

No it doesn't, but there still seems more to this than meets the eye. Were the Schallers original equipment on your guitar?
The reason I ask is that it's possible you're dealing with a hole size issue.
Do you have a set of digital or dial calipers? If not, can you borrow a set from someone?
It could be very helpful if you knew exactly what hole sizes you're dealing with.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that standard hole tolerance is +/- .005" but that's in the machining world. It occurs to me that in the wood world it could be larger, +/- .010" or even more. This means some bushings could be in there too tight, and some could be too loose... on the same guitar.
The reason this occurred to me is that I recall being surprised to see two of the bushings being shimmed on a brand new Epiphone Masterbilt. On that guitar I went from the Original Grover Sta-Tite tuners to Schaller Grandtune.
So I just reused the shims in the same holes for the Schaller's and it worked out fine.
In your case you would really want to know what hole sizes you're actually dealing with.