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  #16  
Old 01-04-2022, 07:18 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Jim,
I love reading the masterlist resource, but I have to ask-
Do you think there is a responder-bias in the DAW users? The folks who responded are maybe the more serious crowd, and probably NOT using the freebie or crippled versions of DAWS.
As much as I hope for a large number of responses to my requests, I can't control who responds. I can only compile the information I'm given in response to my queries.

That said, I'm not going to let the perfect get in the way of the very good. If there's some kind of bias in the answers, my feeling is 'So what?' The lists may be incomplete but they are still representative of what many here are using, and I don't think the fact that not every person on the forum responded detracts from the usefulness of the list as a resource.

The list isn't meant to tell anyone what they should or should not buy or do. It's merely a place to begin one's own explorative journey so that a person doesn't go in totally blind (it's also a place for those of use who participate here to put our gear recommendations in one place without having to constantly repeat ourselves when recommendation requests come up). When people explore software and gear on the list, they're bound to come across things that aren't on the list so I don't see omissions as detracting in any serious way. The list was not meant to be an all-emcompassing catalogue of everything that's available on the market. There are plenty of retail websites to cover that need.
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2022, 07:24 PM
DCCougar DCCougar is offline
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Originally Posted by Koda View Post
I'm recording fingerstyle guitar and I'm wondering what DAW others are using and why they chose it.
Long ago I shelled out for a copy of Bias Deck and recorded on that for years. Then I got a new audio interface with a free version of Cubase LE, which I started using. Running an iMac at this point. Then I picked up Cubase Elements for 80 bucks when it was a Stupid Deal Of The Day (normally $100). Better than Cubase LE and plenty powerful for what I like to do, which is mostly multitracking a synth. As Doug says, though, GarageBand is "fully functional" and probably the way to go at this point.
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2022, 08:00 PM
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Lots of really good insight from everyone - thanks!

It does sound like Logic Pro is the big brother to GarageBand and would be the likely next step without feeling like I'm starting over.

GarageBand:
Screen Shot 2022-01-04 at 5.48.24 PM.jpg

Logic:

Screen Shot 2022-01-04 at 5.50.04 PM.jpg

hard to tell them apart :-)

I agree with Chris, that personally I feel like GarageBand is clunkier. They try to make it simple, and by dumbing it down, it actually makes things harder - since, knowing Logic, in the rare cases I use GarageBand, I'm always going "ok, where did they hide this feature?". Might have a different view if I didn't already know Logic. If $199's not an issue, I'd jump straight to Logic. If you're not sure, and want to experiment for free, GarageBand is there, and you won't lose anything, even if you create something great that you want to work on later in Logic.


Quote:
The comment from AlohaChris about room treatment hit a nerve. One of the reasons I started thinking about my recording set-up was because I'm hearing too much "noise" on my recordings. I realize that this is another whole topic but something I am planning to seriously pursue.
This is really key. Room acoustics and mic placement are 95% of the game. You can get away without extensive treatment if you're lucky enough to have a good sounding space. A furnished living room often works surprisingly well, with close micing. But more often, rooms need help, and a proper-sounding space makes mic placement less critical and just makes everything easier.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2022, 09:45 PM
Koda Koda is offline
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Doug,

Thanks for screen shot. Very similar looking for sure.

I have a dedicated room that is specifically the "music room/home studio" that I could treat. Figuring out how much or how little is the challenge.

Interesting comment about the "living room" as well. I can actually hear a difference, a quietness or a hush of sorts when I walk from the foyer into the living room. I'll have to turn off any sources of noise and experiment in there to see how it goes.

It's a big room with a variety of textures. The usual upholstered couches & chairs may act as absorbers. It is carpeted but there is a brick wall as well so it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

It's sort of humorous in a way isn't it. We play "acoustic" guitars but have to plug-in to play live, spend years honing our craft and then have to get all technical to record our creations. ;-)
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2022, 09:46 PM
j3ffr0 j3ffr0 is offline
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I started with Garage Band and migrated to Logic after realizing I wanted to record more than a couple of things. I also tried Universal Audio's Luna, since I use their audio interface, but I didn't grove with it. I already had a foothold in logic, the product had less features, and I didn't figure it was worth me learning.

Logic was definitely worth learning. Lots of good tutorials out there on whatever you are trying to do.

There is little I can't do with standard Logic plugins, but I do use some others. However, sometimes I just use stock plugins. Seems like the more full featured the song, the more inclined I am to use the plugins built into Logic for most of it -- correctly or incorrectly feeling like they might be a little more efficient. I haven't thought about it too much though short of this thread.
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  #21  
Old 01-04-2022, 11:26 PM
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Here's a vote for Logic. I think for making simple acoustic recording productions it's probably hard to argue for one DAW over another these days. I know some people think it's easier to edit on Protools, but I personally prefer to edit on Logic. If you are into uses beyond acoustic recording, Logic has made big efforts in recent years towards having Ableton Live-ish features, and Dolby Atmos, etc.. I also agree that Apple is a very big company that's likely to be around for a very very long time.. And using an Apple product on a Apple computer is obviously a good fit. And if you work on other Apple apps, like say Final Cut for video editing, the two play well together..
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  #22  
Old 01-05-2022, 07:31 AM
jklotz jklotz is online now
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Sonically, there will be no difference between any of the choices.
Doug, you may want to check out Harrison Mixbus 32c. It does have the sound of one of their legendary consoles baked into it. It's a lesser known DAW, but it is a little different sonically. I mixed a record for one of the bands I was in at the time on it. It has the most analogue workflow of any of them I have seen. It sounds quite good.
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  #23  
Old 01-05-2022, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chipotle View Post
I'm the opposite, as a Reaper/PC user who can't speak much to Logic, but a couple advantages of Reaper are its low resource usage and a very good set of built-in plugins. It has very clean and (IMO) easy-to-use if not fancy looking compressors, both general and multiband, delay, a pretty nice EQ, gate, an IR processor that can be used for noise reduction, an IR-based reverb if you have impulse files, pitch correction and much more.

I don't know what Logic provides but Reaper definitely has a very good default plugin suite.

In the end it comes down to preference and workflow. You won't make a wrong choice with either.
Iíll second this. I use Reaper on a Windows laptop. While I have purchased some fantastic 3rd party plug-inís based on recommendations here, the suite of plug-inís that come with Reaper are very good so just starting with the basic Reaper package will give you an excellent foundation to start from.
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  #24  
Old 01-05-2022, 08:29 AM
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The plug-ins that come with Logic are plentiful and pretty good. The delay designer seems a little clunky, and the reverbs a little lackluster, but Valhalla has $50 plugins (which to me seems reasonable) that provide much better options.
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  #25  
Old 01-05-2022, 09:03 AM
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As a long time Pro Tools and Mac user 18 years actually. I have tried other DAWs --- Reaper -Studio One Pro and Reason,,, messed around a tiny bit with GB
And have dabbled a bit with Logic a few times at Apple stores.

That said::: for somebody starting out on a Mac I would say start with Garage Band (But plan on going to Logic fairly quickly )

I would join in the chorus that says GB is adequate to get your feet wet but clunky compared to a full featured DAW like Logic et.al.

Reaper IMO is a two edged sword ( Now I tried about 5 years so it may have changed ) . It's inexpensive and very CPU efficient and very customizable But it's nomenclature was fairly oblique for me , It's customization is awkward and multistep, Its workflow IMO is also a bit awkward and it has steep learning curve to really customize and know it and use it . I tried the 60 day trial but decided against it. Now OTOH --if I were starting out on a Windows PC (and knew noting about the work flow of Pro tools etc. ) I would probably just go with Reaper

From my view Pro Tools (and it may be just the long time familiarity) is the most intuitive analog recording console "like" with better routing and FX options DAW on the market and is unmatched workflow wise for editing and mixing audio. BUT unfortunately is fairly expensive to purchase, and to stay current requires annual expenditure .

The one 3rd party plugin I would consider would be ,, iZotope RX the bundled plugin in Logic will serve you well to learn on and for a good long time .
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  #26  
Old 01-05-2022, 09:08 AM
GuitarsFromMars GuitarsFromMars is offline
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I know it's $200, but for the money and learning curve, Logic is the deal.
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  #27  
Old 01-05-2022, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jklotz View Post
Doug, you may want to check out Harrison Mixbus 32c. It does have the sound of one of their legendary consoles baked into it. It's a lesser known DAW, but it is a little different sonically. I mixed a record for one of the bands I was in at the time on it. It has the most analogue workflow of any of them I have seen. It sounds quite good.
I haven't tried that one. What I was referring to was mostly just the common question about the kinds of DAWs he's asking about, reaper, Logic, etc, and whether there's an inherently different sound to them. The answer at least in theory should be "no". Aside from any bugs, given the same digital input from your interface they ought to store and play back the same 1s and 0s. If they don't, then something is acting as an effect, or there's a bug. (The digital conversion would be done by your interface, which is a whole other can or worms)

But then there's the question of plugins and processing, which certainly can sound different - you could add the UAD Harrison channel strip, or the Neve channel strip to any DAW, for example, and some DAWs will let you "print" the plugin, so you capture its sound in the 1s and 0s being stored.

And now we have DAWs that blur the line between add-on plugins and built-in sonic processing, like apparently the Mixbus 32c. UA's Luna's another example, where they have "analog" summing and some other processing sort of baked in, and therefore create a different sound.
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Old 01-05-2022, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I haven't tried that one. What I was referring to was mostly just the common question about the kinds of DAWs he's asking about, reaper, Logic, etc, and whether there's an inherently different sound to them. The answer at least in theory should be "no". Aside from any bugs, given the same digital input from your interface they ought to store and play back the same 1s and 0s. If they don't, then something is acting as an effect, or there's a bug. (The digital conversion would be done by your interface, which is a whole other can or worms)

But then there's the question of plugins and processing, which certainly can sound different - you could add the UAD Harrison channel strip, or the Neve channel strip to any DAW, for example, and some DAWs will let you "print" the plugin, so you capture its sound in the 1s and 0s being stored.

And now we have DAWs that blur the line between add-on plugins and built-in sonic processing, like apparently the Mixbus 32c. UA's Luna's another example, where they have "analog" summing and some other processing sort of baked in, and therefore create a different sound.
Doug according to little I have read about Mixbus 32 is that they have in fact "baked in" some programing in the algorithm in both the audio engine and the mix engine to emulate their big analog mixing consoles ...
So unlike most DAWs which (I assume) strive to have no coloration in the audio or mix engines,,,,, until you start adding plugins.
Purportedly Harrison Mix Bus with no effects emulates their analog consoles (which to my mind is a two edged sword) yes you are reportedly able to get their "analog sound" before FX which if you like that sound is great...
But then OTOH it sounds to me like you cannot get away from that "baked in" algorithm "Sound" To me Harrison channel strips (made to look like one of their consoles with a console style EQ and Compressor already in the strip ) looks somewhat Reasons SSL style channel strips ...
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  #29  
Old 01-05-2022, 03:35 PM
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But then OTOH it sounds to me like you cannot get away from that "baked in" algorithm "Sound" To me Harrison channel strips (made to look like one of their consoles with a console style EQ and Compressor already in the strip ) looks somewhat Reasons SSL style channel strips ...
Yeah, I tend to want to defer decisions until mix time. It'd maybe be different if I was just engineering in a real studio, sitting behind the glass listening and dialing in a sound of someone else's performance. But in a home studio, having to fill all roles, I don't want to commit to things I can't undo later, once I'm sitting listening to the results. So for my workflow, I prefer to be uncolored during recording (tho mic choice and placement is a coloring choice).
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Old 01-21-2022, 06:52 AM
Sasquatchian Sasquatchian is offline
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The choice of DAW isn't going to make much of a difference in recording acoustic instruments. That choice really comes down to what you're comfortable with. There are a few reasons that make Logic an obvious choice though. One is that you know it's going to be compatible with the Mac OS - always. It's very versatile. When you move to one of the new M1 chipped Macs or MacBookPro's, you know it will be native to Silicon architecture, and it's easy to use.

When I set up our home studio, which was primarily to record remote sessions for my gf, it seemed that most of the composers who hired her were using Logic, so it was easier to be compatible with them as very often they will just send the entire Logic Project complete with their multi-time signature, multi- bpm click tracks already in place. For the composer that are using ProTools, they either send us a Logic Project or just send the backing tracks which I load into Logic.

Although it's hard to imagine Apple abandoning Logic, they do have a track record in that department. They, without much warning, dropped development and support for Aperture, leaving many photographers high and dry and who can forget when Final Cut 7 was a a major force in Hollywood and the replaced it with Final Cut X, which was just a glorified iMovie and pissed off an entire audience, forcing them to go to Premiere, Avid and finally ReSolve.

I kept hearing one of the hosts of The Master Show podcast rave about Reaper so I downloaded it and just could not get me head around it at all. Logic ain't perfect but it's pretty ****ed good and it gets the job done and combined with an Apollo x8p, some really great mics and some equally great plug-ins, we're getting nothing but compliments on the tracks we're sending out.

The one Logic quirk that drives me nuts is that when you do volume automation on a mono track and then export it or just bounce it in place, there is a check box to "Include Volume and Pan Automation". So, when you check that to include your volume automation, even when there's no panning automation on the track, outputs a stereo track. It doesn't make any difference in how you use the track later but it is twice the file size and that's one thing that ProTools does not do.

Still Logic is cheap at $200 and you really can't go wrong with it. It's more important to have a couple of good mic's and work on mic placement and some sort of acoustic treatment both for you recording space and for you playback space, and to have some really good monitors and headphones so you know what you're listening to. The monitors are really that important and that's the reason I spent close to half my audio investment on a Genelec calibrated system. Can't stress this part of the equation enough. If you can't afford good monitors, then at least get a decent set of cans.
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