Joint pain and nylon string guitars

[The Watchman]

Anybody consider going to silk & steel strings as an interim measure? I wouldn't want to change guitars unless I had to.

[CityPickn]

Originally Posted by Always Learning

Hey "L" or is it "I"...?,

Sorry to hear about your finger pain and the possibility of arthritis in the joint.

I'm just wondering what your doctor had to say about the pain and the condition of the joint and what may be causing that pain..?

You have seen a doctor haven't you..?

Do you ever follow sports..? I ask because if you do follow sports, you know that when an athlete injures themselves, they see the teams doctor or a specialist. That individual can best ascertain the severity of the injury and prescribe treatment and medications and methods of rehabilitation to get that athlete back up to his/her previous playing abilities.

That said... I know what pain in the fretting hand is like and it's not fun.

There are some things you can do to try and minimize the pain. One is when practicing limit your time on a piece to 15 minutes, take a 5 minute break to let your hand and fingers relax... and then go back to that piece.

Other things you can try are filling you bathroom sink with very warm / hot water (not scalding hot) with epsom salts and soak it for 10 or 15 minutes and see if the inflammation lessens. I sometimes soak my left hand that way and it helps...As for over the counter medications, consult a pharmacist or that doctor I mentioned... there may be a pill you can take daily that helps reduce the pain.

Another thing while we are on the subject of pain in the hand and joints. Try and observe the way you are sitting. Are your shoulders square and relaxed. Is the head of the guitar in line with your head and eyes. Is there tension in your neck and left arm. The nerve that runs from C8 to your hand could be pinched. Or the nerve in your wrist to that finger could be pinched. Basic info obtained from a google search follows in quotes:

"C8 is the nerve "root" that exits the spinal cord below the seventh vertebra in the neck. It travels into the brachial plexus and eventually becomes the nerves that feed muscles in the hand and muscles that bend the fingers. It also provides sensation on the small finger side of the hand and forearm."

Now I am not a doctor and I believe if this pain in an ongoing problem, a qualified doctor is the best person to talk to.

Best of luck from someone who deals with ongoing pain 24/7 from a botched cervical operation and has suffered severe nerve damage to his left arm and hand for 20 years. Took me 20 years to build up and regain the ability to play classical guitar again.

PS: maybe some low to medium tension strings....

I've heard of a trick where players with arthritis will warm up by blowing a hot hair dryer on their hands/elbow/etc. to loosen up. That could be included in a warm-up routine. Sometimes the tin man needs some oil.

[tbirdman]

I'm 65 and starting to play about 1.5 years ago. Initially I had some pain in my left hand index finger. Not a lot, but some discomfort. Interestingly enough I hadn't thought about the pain until I read this post. I attributed to arthritis. Somewhere along the line the pain went away. I practice about two hours a day and play both steel and nylon when I practice.

Could it be that consistent playing, made the pain go away? Maybe it was something other than arthritis.

[Carey]

A few things that I think have helped me with pain in my hands- gone now, knock on wood:

-Getting enough Omega-3 from direct sources, like sardines
-Warming my hands in moderately warm water before playing
-Benfotiamine, a fat-soluble form of Thiamine
-Exercising the hands on alternating days with bao-ding balls, sometimes called 'Chinese Health Balls'
-Supplementing with Vitamin D, only when adequate sun is not available- I try to get at least a half-hour of good direct sun daily.

[lkingston]

I just want to say that I am enjoying and learning from the responses.

[rmp]

as mentioned, look for a crossover, something with a smaller, thinner neck

traditional nylons have huge necks. you'll want to avoid that.

[Gtrfinger]

Laurence, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. The guitar injuries that can inflict themselves upon us are myriad. In 2013-2014 I couldn't play at all, and I was misdiagnosed not once but several times. I won't go into it.

It's depressing when we can't play like we normally do but you can turn it to your advantage. It gives you the opportunity to do that which you put off - theory practice, composing, arranging etc.

Alternatively, you could try holding the guitar differently.

There's no one solution that suits all, because everyone's different, and your diagnosis might at first be not the full picture.

I'm simply saying - I get the mental pain that you're feeling at not being able to play like you were, but I'm also saying, you'll get through it somehow.

[j3ffr0]

A friend recommended a fantastic book to me on the subject of technique that has actually helped me with all sorts of issues I didn't even know I had as I begin to incorporate what I can from it into what I do. It is one of a handful of books, I actually plan to read a second time. I would recommend this to anyone who is playing with any form of discomfort (although it definitely won't cure arthritis).

Playing with Ease by David Leisner

[redir]

I bought the book Playing with Ease myself as I heard so many good things about it. It didn't really help me one bit though honestly.

I think it's a myth that playing Spanish guitar is 'easier' on the hands and fingers. Style and technique of course are important but if you want a loud robust tone from your Spanish guitar it needs high action and very strong hands especially playing in the classical guitar technique.

I find that one Aleve 5 times a week takes the edge off my arthritis but it's not for everyone. Warming up is also very very important.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by rmp

as mentioned, look for a crossover, something with a smaller, thinner neck

traditional nylons have huge necks. you'll want to avoid that.

I was thinking the same thing. The Godin Multiac Nylon Deluxe is exactly that. The neck is wider than a regular acoustic, but thinner than a classical guitar. The body intersects at the 14th fret. I still want to be primarily a steel string player, but I want to be able to practice and perform when I have pain flare ups with a lighter touch. I expect that the string tension will be about half of what I am currently experiencing with my steel string Multiacs (around 80 pounds vs 160).

[Always Learning]

Laurence,

Hows the joint pain..?

As I wrote earlier, I too started experiencing pain in the joint right at the tip on my index and also slight pain and numbness in the thumb...

My wife suggested I start taking omega 3 capsules along with turmeric once a day. I also noticed tightness in neck and shoulders, so she massaged my left shoulder right behind the shoulder blade. There was a knotted muscle. Well the massages along with the daily regimen of omega-3 and turmeric have seemed to help.... One other thing, not sure what the rules are here at the forum, but I revisited a video that Allen Mathews made regarding exercises and warmups before playing...link below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYtGMixM2PU

He also has videos on his website..

I am happy to say that the pain I was experiencing in the finger and thumb have dissipated considerably... But still some residue pain lingering after an hour of playing...

Glad my wife suggested the supplements.. Glad I remember Allen Mathews video... much cheaper than buying new guitars.. With the money I saved I also purchased a special memory foam pillow for people with neck pain issues. And also purchased a special tool that allows you to apply pressure to knotted muscles... all seem to be helping. Figure I saved two grand all in all.

[wkbryan]

Lots of good information here, and it’s interesting to read first-hand accounts of what has and hasn’t worked amongst a diverse group.

A while back I started experiencing pain in the first knuckle of both index fingers. Tender in the exact same spot and no where else. I tried some of my wife’s OTC Voltaren cream and was surprised at how quickly and completely the pain went away. It hasn’t always been as quick as it was the first day but it always helps. Thankfully I don’t need to use it very often.

I think one of the precautions pertains to the liver so reading that part of the insert is a good idea.

[lkingston]

Another new thing: I just got my first case of gout (which is finally subsiding). I think that it is likely that the gout and arthritis are related, and that dehydration might be a major factor in both ailments. I’ve started drinking way more water.

[Always Learning]

Originally Posted by lkingston

Another new thing: I just got my first case of gout (which is finally subsiding). I think that it is likely that the gout and arthritis are related, and that dehydration might be a major factor in both ailments. I’ve started drinking way more water.

GOUT...Hummmmmm what causes gout...?

check out this link:
https://gouteducation.org/what-is-go...iAAEgK-8vD_BwE

If you drink alcohol... stop, lay off of red meats, suggest poultry and fish and see your medical provider. Maybe they can prescribe Indomethacin to control it.

My issues started to disappear once I started Omega-3s and Turmeric

Best of Luck

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by Always Learning

GOUT...Hummmmmm what causes gout...?

check out this link:
https://gouteducation.org/what-is-go...iAAEgK-8vD_BwE

If you drink alcohol... stop, lay off of red meats, suggest poultry and fish and see your medical provider. Maybe they can prescribe Indomethacin to control it.

My issues started to disappear once I started Omega-3s and Turmeric

Best of Luck

I’ve stopped my moderate alcohol consumption, cut way back on meats, and am taking Turmeric. I’m drinking way more water. I’ll check out the Omega-3s. Thanks.

I have just lost about 40 pounds by eating one meal a day since August. That one meal has shifted the balance of what I eat a bit more towards meat I believe. I went from about 217 to 177 pounds.

I used to do competitive Judo and other grappling tournaments, and I know from experience that the only way to lose significant weight is to get your body to go into ketosis. Now that I am skinny again, I can go way up on fruits without gaining the weight back, and that will be healthier.