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  #1  
Old 01-08-2022, 06:21 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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Default Reached my first two goals with recording to a DAW

Been recording my songs to a Zoom H5 recording for some time. Haven't been happy with my lack of control over vocal and audio levels for some time so finally interfaced it to Reaper with two goals.

First was to be able to control the guitar and vocal levels separately.

Second was to remove the unwanted vocal noises, like sharp breath intake, lip noises and such.

https://soundcloud.com/user-70350267...3d7da951a1ad85

I noticed my vocal levels were a bit low in the last moments and could have easily increased them.

Interested in your feedback, not trying to compete with a professional level of production, just learning the whole process at the moment.

The song is from the movie A star is born starring Lady Gaga
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Old 01-09-2022, 12:27 PM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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OK so you are off to decent start . For a first DAW mixing effort

I don't know if more level on the vocal is the ticket so much as a simply a bit more distinction between the vocal and guitar, which is function of some recording and mixing methods.
Because both the vocal and guitar seem to be centered (and thus on top of each other sonically)

So I am only guessing, but did you recorded both the vocal and guitar at the same time and used the onboard mic's ? And thus you only had one stereo track to send to mix in Reaper ?

So more info on exactly how you recorded and how you transferred the file's to Reaper would help


Because Ideally you would have at least two tracks for Reaper ,,,a stereo guitar track, and a mono vocal track .
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Old 01-09-2022, 01:47 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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Thanks. I recorded the guitar track initially using the zoom h5 as an audio interface on the 3rd of the 4 zoom channels.

I recorded the audio using my shure sm58 (only mic I have on the road, we are traveling in our RV) on the 4th zoom channel while listening to the guitar track through the headphones plugged into the zoom.
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Old 01-09-2022, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyo View Post
Thanks. I recorded the guitar track initially using the zoom h5 as an audio interface on the 3rd of the 4 zoom channels.

I recorded the audio using my shure sm58 (only mic I have on the road, we are traveling in our RV) on the 4th zoom channel while listening to the guitar track through the headphones plugged into the zoom.
Ok still need more clarification
So yes I understand you are using the H5 as an interface (just so you know an "audio interface" simply means it has converters, to convert analog audio signals to digital signals ) to "interface" between analog and digital ...

What I am not clear on is,,, did you record the guitar using the H5 mics ? If so then you should record in stereo file mode which would be two channels on the zoom ? like 1/2 or 2/3 or 3/4 ??
Also not clear on how you transferred the files to Reaper did you have the H5 connected via USB cable ? or did you use the SD card ?

The reason I ask is because if you record the guitar using the H5 mics (set to stereo file mode ) ,, that gives you stereo guitar,(which is two channels in zoom (I think) which you can then pan left and right (in Reaper) , and then if by "record the audio using the SM58" you mean the vocal,,,,? then it would then be a 3rd channel recorded in mono (multi file mode) and panned centered and so you would have three channels to go into Reaper . But it appears that you can only transfer 3/4 channels via the SD card (at least that is how it think it would/should work)
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Last edited by KevWind; 01-09-2022 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 01-09-2022, 04:27 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Don't take me as expert, even though I record often and make some recording results public. None-the-less here's my reaction to a quick listen.

I grew up and still listen to a fair amount of early folk and traditional recordings. I still find them rewarding, and even though I create and listen a lot of heavily effect-soaked and "artificial" music too, I find their direct honesty refreshing.

For your arrangement and presentation, I wasn't bothered by the sort-of-mono sound in the least. I think you gauged the vocal level just about right, and whatever you did (just good mic technique and performance, or any "DAW tricks" like volume automation or software compression) you keep a fairly consistent volume level on your vocal. The guitar was dry and didn't call too much attention to itself, which I like fine as part of the total presentation.

In summary: in my mind, to my tastes and ears, you're doing good, even more so as someone who's just dipping their toes in.

My final thought: aims and tastes differ -- and can even change for yourself as you do more recording. Others here probably have more technical knowledge that I do and I'll leave them to offer that.
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Old 01-09-2022, 06:18 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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Ok still need more clarification

What I am not clear on is,,, did you record the guitar using the H5 mics ? If so then you should record in stereo file mode which would be two channels on the zoom ? like 1/2 or 2/3 or 3/4 ??
Also not clear on how you transferred the files to Reaper did you have the H5 connected via USB cable ? or did you use the SD card ?
I did not record the guitar using the H5 (xy) mics. I connected the H5 to my DAW using a USB cable and had a pre-amp between the guitar and the H5, the guitar has a k&k mini (static) pickup. The eq on the pre amp had the bass and mids turned down and the treble at mid range.

The vocals were recorded the same way as the guitar, just using a different channel (4).
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Old 01-09-2022, 06:23 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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Quote:
In summary: in my mind, to my tastes and ears, you're doing good, even more so as someone who's just dipping their toes in.
Thanks.

A friend of mine commented:

I see you more as a "live" performer. That tolerates, even demands, a certain roughness to the quality of the recording.

As such, I'm not trying to perfect it as a production, yet I'd like to be proficient enough to tidy it up fairly well.
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Old 01-10-2022, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyo View Post
I did not record the guitar using the H5 (xy) mics. I connected the H5 to my DAW using a USB cable and had a pre-amp between the guitar and the H5, the guitar has a k&k mini (static) pickup. The eq on the pre amp had the bass and mids turned down and the treble at mid range.

The vocals were recorded the same way as the guitar, just using a different channel (4).
Ah ok that clears up the reason for the two mono files. Like iI said it appears that The H5 can only output 2 channels (usually a stereo interleaved file) Via USB
So the good news is that will work fine and you are as I said, getting a pretty decent recording. The only thing with the way you are doing now is that will prevent you getting more left to right spread on the guitar and to help giving your recording more of feeling of a real space
So in the future you might want to consider recording the guitar using the XY mic's

The only helpful critique I have and looking to the future , is the guitar and vocal do seem be a bit overlapping each other, or conflicting with each other such that I had trouble understanding a few phrases.

Recording/ Mixing 101 --- the human voice and the guitar occupy a significant amount of the same frequencies . And this can lead to either or both being less detailed and less distinct in the sound field

So first I would suggest to not use the EQ on the preamp for either the guitar or the vocal ---I would record completely dry and wait to apply FX like EQ. etc. in Reaper.

For example in Reaper you can EQ the guitar with a high pass filter for the low end and then use a slight wide Q lower Mid cut (in place of doing that on the preamp). And you then you can Eq vocal with a high pass and perhaps do a slight mid wide Q boost .This will help give detail to both... THEN perhaps consider a slight bit of compression on the vocal with a ratio of say 2:1 to 4:1 and a slight bit of gain
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Old 01-10-2022, 02:30 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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Thanks Kev, much appreciated

Quote:
Recording/ Mixing 101 --- the human voice and the guitar occupy a significant amount of the same frequencies . And this can lead to either or both being less detailed and less distinct in the sound field
Any references you can suggest where I can learn more about this?

I have considered recording the guitar via the xy mics, the guitar live is much richer sounding than what comes through in the recording via the static pickups. It's an adjustment to how I currently record in that I sing while playing the guitar track but don't record the vocals. I don't want my vocals coming through the xy so will have to possibly mentally / quietly sing.
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Old 01-10-2022, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyo View Post
Thanks Kev, much appreciated



Any references you can suggest where I can learn more about this?

I have considered recording the guitar via the xy mics, the guitar live is much richer sounding than what comes through in the recording via the static pickups. It's an adjustment to how I currently record in that I sing while playing the guitar track but don't record the vocals. I don't want my vocals coming through the xy so will have to possibly mentally / quietly sing.
As far as written info not off hand but here is a handy dandy frequency chart of various instruments and male and female vocals
So you can see from the black arrow how much of the frequency range the guitar and male vocal have in common basically fro 100 Hz to 5kHz With common fundamentals in the 100 Hz to aprox 1kHz range

Then at the bottom of the chart (below the keyboard) in the Midrange section,,, look at the descriptors -- the Fullness/Mud and the Honk areas are especially where the vocal and guitar can conflict so I can help to boost one in part of that range and cut the other or even cut both in places in that range (all depends on the specific voice and guitar)

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Last edited by KevWind; 01-10-2022 at 04:01 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2022, 03:58 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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Thanks. You rock.
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