#16
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
What you are trying to achieve is the lowest string height at the nut that eliminates buzzing. If one plays with greater vigour, that might mean having the string height at the nut slightly higher to achieve buzz-free playing. If in YOUR playing, you need a bit more on the bass than treble strings, go for it. Know thy player for whom you are setting the string height. Quote:
I usually use a single, small drop of undiluted Titebond on the bottom edge of the nut, at its centre, so that the glue contacts the end of the fingerboard and the bottom of the nut. It only needs to hold the nut in place while the strings are off and doesn't take much glue. I see no reason to glue entire surfaces and using too much glue just makes a mess. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
The spring force is primarily to return the plunger towards its initial position, taking up slack. It yields when pressed against a string.
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Hi Charles et al, I'm a player, not a tech/luthier, but this peaked my interest
"I don't measure the height of the strings above the first fret. As I stated, I measure the height of the first fret and then make the height of the strings at the nut that height, perhaps with a few extra thousandths. It depends on the player. What you are trying to achieve is the lowest string height at the nut that eliminates buzzing. If one plays with greater vigour, that might mean having the string height at the nut slightly higher to achieve buzz-free playing. If in YOUR playing, you need a bit more on the bass than treble strings, go for it. Know thy player for whom you are setting the string height." I'm a heavy handed ol' bluegrass picker, and love my 1st position chords. I don't tune my strings all open , but, as I mostly work out of a G, or C shape root chord, I tend to tune the notes of a G chord with an extra D on thre 2nds string. For me, that makes the open 1st and particularly the 2nd and 6th strings a trifle flat when played open - but OK when playing GC, F and A7 &D 1st position shapes. I play mostly Collings guitars which I feel have well spaced frets and intonation, and so I've always assumed that my method of tuning compensates my heavy fretting rather than issues at the nut or saddle. If it matters, my dreads always have with medium gauge strings, my 000 has light gauge. So, am I wrong? Is it the nut do you think ? (most are, I believe originals but none were bought new so I don't know for sure). Thanks in advance,
__________________
Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Steve
__________________
Cole Clark Fat Lady Gretsch Electromatic Martin CEO7 Maton Messiah Taylor 814CE |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
With few exceptions, guitars are designed with target pitches of equal temperament. To make a long story short, equal temperament is a compromise and doesn't sound entirely in tune, but is equally out of tune in all keys. Even if an instrument perfectly achieved the pitches of equal temperament, the instrument would still sound out of tune. No guitar achieves perfect intonation, though one can get "arbitrarily close". Most guitars, as purchased, have quite poor intonation. Poor intonation makes getting in tune a random chasing of one's tail since the instrument plays randomly closer or further away from the desired pitches depending where on the fingerboard the note is played. The starting point to playing in tune is to ensure that the instrument achieves the desired pitches sufficiently accurately. That can include compensation at nut, saddle or both. Once that is sufficiently well setup, then one can logically address the issue of the discrepancies between equal temperament and what the ear wants to hear ("just" tuning). Part of that logical approach is in identifying the specific discrepancies, such as thirds. A good example of that is tuning a first position D major chord. If you tune the high F#, on the first string, so that sounds in tune, the open string will sound out of tune, such as part of the first position C major chord. What many do is "sweeten" the tuning so that it sounds more in tune for a particular key or group of chords, though it will sound more out of tune in other keys, requiring that one re-sweeten if one changes keys. To address your question more specifically, one would have to know more about the accuracy of your guitar's setup and your method of tuning. To get past generalities, very specific information is necessary. Last edited by charles Tauber; 09-13-2019 at 08:31 PM. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
That High F# you mention( High E second fret) Has been my number one complaint. Never understood why. Thanks for clarifying this. Especially a problem for myself since I use so many variations of the D chord in combination with E chord and its open High E string.
|
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Look at the table towards the bottom that compares equal temperament and Just tuning. The right-most column gives the discrepancy in 100ths of a semitones (cents). Note, for example, that the equal temperament major third is 15 cents flat compared to the Just tuning we hear as in tune. Practically, that means that if you tune the guitar to equal temperament the F# in the first position D major chord will sound 15 cents sharp. A good ear can distinguish between pitches 2 cents apart: 15 cents is way out. Consequently, many will lower the pitch of the high e string until the F# sounds in tune in that D major chord. That makes all of the notes on that string 15 cents flat. If you then play an E major chord, the high e will sound flat. We end up chasing the out of tuneless around from one key to the next. Last edited by charles Tauber; 09-16-2019 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Corrections, in red, pointed out by Trevor Gore |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I go for a very 'consonant' sound on open E, G, and D cowboy chords and check myself by playing an E5 chord at 7th position, with open strings all ringing. I find that once that's sorted, the rest of what I'm playing takes care of itself as long as the basic 12th fret intonation is right & proper to start with. Further adjustments (usually slacking the unwound trebles a tad) are needed when I use a capo. This consonance is almost a physical sensation that I can feel in my chest, but it would not surprise me to learn that it's going to be different for each person, by a tiny degree, which may partly explain some of the subjectively identifiable elements of a particular player's "sound". Yes, it IS all in the hands (and the ears, the diaphragm, and one's very cells). I've had scant opportunity to try out some of the "solutions" to tuning Temperament, such as compensated nuts, multi-scale/fan-fret designs, et al, but I believe that ultimately, since players are humans with unique senses of touch, pitch, dynamics, and pure artistic expression...clams and all, even a theoretically "perfect" system of tuning would probably result in something other than music.
__________________
Larrivee L-10 Custom Larrivee DV-10K Larrivee L-03 Taylor 412K ('96) Yamaha LL16-12 (SOLD) PRS 'Studio' (SOLD) Rickenbacker 660-12 (SOLD) Fender USA Deluxe Strat Fender USA Roadhouse Strat Fender MIM/USA Partscaster Fender MIM Nashville Tele Kelsey Custom Hardtail Strat Fender MIM P-Bass |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
If you are going to glue just put the glue on the end of the fretboard, this will make the nut easy to remove without pulling up and wood from the bottom of the nut slot which is hard to level out. Once you do the nut will no longer be the correct height.
But no glue is needed as the strings will hold the nut in place. If the nut is loose in its slot it will drop out when you change strings but thats no biggie. Its simple to see which end goes which way becuse of the size of the gaps for the strings. |
#28
|
|||||
|
|||||
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In my experience, there is no down-side to using a small dab of glue to hold a nut in place: there is only up-side. Quote:
|
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Salute
I would once again like to sound my extreme appreciation for Charles' participation on this forum. He thinks and writes clearly on so many aspects we players never even consider or were not taught--and he sure knows his 'stuff'!
__________________
-It's a dangerous business, going out your front door; You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, There is no telling where you might be swept off to. |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
I second that.
|