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  #1  
Old 03-24-2021, 07:23 AM
TennesseeWalker TennesseeWalker is offline
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Default US made rosewood guitar - - -

You guys can save me a whole lot of researching and trying sift thru past threads if someone knowledgeable can answer this question for me -

I'm looking acquiring at a rosewood guitar, made in the US around 2004 or so.
It is being sold by a shop outside the US (overseas).

What Cites issues if any may I have shipping the guitar back into the US into my possession if they say, have no paperwork on the woods in the guitar?
The label clearly states it's a US made guitar.
Is this a simple matter or does it get complex and I should be asking a lot more questions?
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Old 03-24-2021, 07:32 AM
mcduffnw mcduffnw is offline
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Is there some reason you can't tell us what the guitar is...brand model?

I don't think anyone here on the AGF is gonna try to steal out from under you. We're here to help and many folks here have been in the position you are in right now. It's good people here...

As far as the rosewood, if it is any rosewood other than Brazilian Rosewood, you would be fine...but...if it is Brazilian, for absolute safety you would need proper CITES documentation on that wood/guitar. There is now also some overarching form of "passport" that can apparently be gotten for a guitar made with Brazilian that will also allow the guitar to move across international borders legally.

You need to check with the party that is selling the guitar to see what they know and what they have.

If the guitar is outside the US and you try import it back in, and it is brazilian rosewood, you run the risk of it being inspected and detained by US Customs.


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Old 03-24-2021, 07:38 AM
Tim Mullin Tim Mullin is online now
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CITES doesn’t care where the instrument was made, only that it is crossing an international border. Entry of instruments with rosewoods other than Brazilian requires no CITES paperwork, only an export declaration of species. The species likely to give issues entering the US are any type and quantity of shell - those require US import paperwork under the Lacey Act.
Now, if the guitar has any amount of Brazilian rosewood (AKA Jacaranda, Dalbergia nigra) it will require both export and import paperwork under CITES.
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Old 03-24-2021, 10:44 AM
TennesseeWalker TennesseeWalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcduffnw View Post
Is there some reason you can't tell us what the guitar is...brand model?
Thank you for any responses on this question -

Familiar with the Brazilian Rosewood being an issue - was not familiar if Cites also referred to other guitars with Rosewoods such as Madagascar or any others as well.

Duff - Not that I can't tell anyone what the guitar brand/model is, just can't see where that would make any kind of difference would it?

Tim - sent you a note but your box is full. Would an abalone rosette or purfling fit in with your mention of the Lacey Act?
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2004 Martin J-41 Special Sitka/EIR
2002 Huss and Dalton TDR 45 Sitka/Honduran Rosewood
2014 Huss and Dalton TDR 45 Bearclaw Adi/Brazilian Rosewood
2019 Ryan Nightingale Bearclaw Sitka/EIR


Last edited by TennesseeWalker; 03-24-2021 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 03-24-2021, 01:46 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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Wouldn't you save a ton of money and grief buying a guitar here?
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Old 03-24-2021, 02:10 PM
TennesseeWalker TennesseeWalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
Wouldn't you save a ton of money and grief buying a guitar here?
Not looking to just buy 'a guitar' - looking for something specific and they don't come on the market very often.

Should it not be worth my extra expense and any minor grief factor to get exactly what I'm looking for?
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2019 Ryan Nightingale Bearclaw Sitka/EIR

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Old 03-24-2021, 02:25 PM
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UncleJesse UncleJesse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TennesseeWalker View Post
Not looking to just buy 'a guitar' - looking for something specific and they don't come on the market very often.

Should it not be worth my extra expense and any minor grief factor to get exactly what I'm looking for?
Is it that Sunburst one from Singapore? If so, I must say I've been admiring it too.
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Old 03-24-2021, 03:25 PM
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I would be VERY reluctant to purchase something like that from an overseas individual. I dont say that out of xenophobia, but even under the best circumstances, so much can happen, and your legal protections and remedies will be more difficult if at all. Would a custom build be a reasonable option if you have uncommon desires?
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Old 03-24-2021, 03:47 PM
rule18 rule18 is offline
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Overseas purchase concerns aside, you could probably send the serial number to the manufacturer. Maybe they can generate the appropriate paperwork necessary to allow the import without too much hassle.
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Old 03-24-2021, 04:36 PM
Tim Mullin Tim Mullin is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TennesseeWalker View Post
Thank you for any responses on this question

Tim - sent you a note but your box is full. Would an abalone rosette or purfling fit in with your mention of the Lacey Act?
Hmm, sorry about the inbox — guess I need to look in there!
Yes, abalone inlay would trigger a Lacey declaration. There’s nothing illegal about it, but the declaration (and the fee) are required. As a builder, I can tell you that this is the biggest PITA when selling from Canada to the US. I hear all sorts of strategies to avoid it, but technically it’s required.
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Old 03-24-2021, 08:56 PM
TennesseeWalker TennesseeWalker is offline
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Thank you Tim,

Read up on the Lacey Act as I’d never heard of it before and came across the following regarding Gibson and some of their acquired wood.


Gibson Guitar controversy -

See also: Gibson § FWS raids & Lacey Act violation
Gibson Guitar Corporation was raided twice by federal authorities, in 2009 and 2011. Federal prosecutors seized wood from Gibson facilities, alleging that Gibson had purchased smuggled Madagascar ebony and Indian rosewood. Gibson initially denied wrongdoing and insisted that the federal government was bullying them.

In August 2012, Gibson entered into a Criminal Enforcement Agreement with the Department of Justice, admitting to violating the Lacey Act. The terms of the agreement required Gibson to pay a fine of $300,000 in addition to a $50,000 community payment, and to abide by the terms of the Lacey Act in the future.
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2004 Martin J-41 Special Sitka/EIR
2002 Huss and Dalton TDR 45 Sitka/Honduran Rosewood
2014 Huss and Dalton TDR 45 Bearclaw Adi/Brazilian Rosewood
2019 Ryan Nightingale Bearclaw Sitka/EIR

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