The Musical Knowledge Thread...

[mr. beaumont]

There's been quite a few posts/threads about "theory," lately, some of which have gotten bogged down and closed.

This thread is not about theory, and it's intended hopefully to clear up some misconceptions about what theory actually is...you all know, I'm "pro-knowledge" and I'm of the opinion a little theory (as always, if really known and internalized) can't hurt, but I'm also of the school of thought that theory is NOT something every guitar player is going to need.

But there's another category of things--stuff I'd put into a "general music knowledge" or "fundamentals" category that I consider non-negotiable for my students, and these are things I think can help every guitar player--with their own playing, and with communication with other players (even other instruments) These things sometimes seem to get called "theory," but in my opinion, there's absolutely nothing theoretical about them--they're a solid foundation you'd learn on just about any other instrument as well...

Here they are:

1. The names of the notes on the fretboard
2. The major scales and how to find the chords that belong to them
3. How to "spell" chords from a formula


In addition, I think students should have basic reading and writing skills (musically--yes, the little dots and sticks) and be able to read tablature as well as being able to count specific rhythms...

I'm interested to see what anybody else would add to the list...again, no "theory," just fundamentals, questions with concrete answers...

[delb0y]

Time Signatures would be something I'd add.

Plus the common phraseology around time sigs and rhythms, be it cut time, waltz, 'this one's in 3', this is a shuffle, straight eighths etc...

Maybe chord notation, too, although I still get confused over all the different variances, myself. I blame Jamey Abersold

Kind regards
Derek

[mr. beaumont]

Those are good--reading chord symbols would be so much easier if there was a standard convention, unfortunately, we have to know a lot of different styles to play in different situations...

[mc1]

but 'fundamentals' of what exactly? i can't differentiate between the fundamentals of music and the fundamentals of music theory. music theory is the study of how music works. it seems absurd to say that scales and chord construction are not a part of music theory.

[mr. beaumont]

That's kinda what I'm trying to differentiate here. I gave my list of things I think are fundamental and concrete. I'd like to see what others would add.

What's good common knowledge...where is the line drawn? That's the point of the thread. To me, fundamentals are building blocks. Theory is to explain. These things I listed don't really explain anything, they just "are," and in my opinion, just worth knowing.

[clintj]

How about a list of references? I was looking at music books yesterday and my music store has an overwhelming variety to choose from. I ended up sitting down in one of the chairs and doing some searching here to see what some well regarded books were for what I wanted to focus on. Scales, related chords, and fretboard layout - look at these. Rhythm and counting - these are good, etc.

[Bern]

I think, regarding chords, to be able to construct and knowing chords in root, 1st, 2nd & 3rd position in addition to closed position. It's a good way to learn the board.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

That's kinda what I'm trying to differentiate here. I gave my list of things I think are fundamental and concrete. I'd like to see what others would add.

What's good common knowledge...where is the line drawn? That's the point of the thread. To me, fundamentals are building blocks. Theory is to explain. These things I listed don't really explain anything, they just "are," and in my opinion, just worth knowing.

that's interesting. i'll think about it some more and look forward to other's opinions.

looking at your 1-3 list, i think one could be a good guitar player with only #2 (scale and chord knowledge), without really knowing all the fretboard notes or knowing chord formulas.

[Bern]

mc, you can't play scales if you don't know the fretboard.

[mr. beaumont]

I think one could be a good guitar player without anyof it!

The knowledge aspect isn't necessarily about "playing" better, it's about being a knowledgeable musician...which has it's importance as well.

Now, if all someone ever wants to do is play by themself, the only reason to tackle this stuff is because it's something you want to or need to know for a certain style of music. If you want to play with others, sometimes I think knowing some of this stuff is common courtesy.

None of this comes before or instead of a good ear but in addition to...(I'll have to do a thread on that sometime too, because I think most of the people out there who say they're a good "ear player" aren't, but that's a battle for another day)

So in otherwords, it's great if you have a good ear and can sit in with folks and make up your own part, but it's also nice if someone can say to you, "Can you play an A, G, and E together at this part" and you can do it too.

[stanron]

This site gives the ABRSM syllabus.

http://www.mymusictheory.com/referen...reference.html

To sum up there are 5 grades in each of these;

Note values
Clefs
Time signatures
Key signatures
Scales
Composition
Transposition
Intervals
Triads/Chords
General (Notation symbols)

Details of each level are shown in the above link.

[Bern]

Jeff, I understand where you are trying to go in this thread. I truly believe it's very hard to find a common line of thinking here, because, every guitar player has different level of commitment, which sort of dictates which 'tools' he would need to accomplish his goals.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Bern

mc, you can't play scales if you don't know the fretboard.

hi bern, what about box and scale patterns? lots of players think in those terms but couldn't name the notes, or at least not quickly.

if fact, one of the first things many players learn is their classic pentatonic blues box, and the notes on the 1st/6th string. and then they are good to go!

[hovishead]

Originally Posted by Bern

mc, you can't play scales if you don't know the fretboard.

It's quite possible to play scales either using patterns across all 6 strings or in a straight line on one string without knowing the fretboard. A complete beginner could do this using tablature, and someone coming across from a different instrument could do it by ear without much trouble.

[hovishead]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

These things sometimes seem to get called "theory," but in my opinion, there's absolutely nothing theoretical about them--they're a solid foundation you'd learn on just about any other instrument as well...

This is all fundamental theory. Any further theory builds on these fundamental principles.