Why is it called "Travis Picking" and not "Mississippi John Hurt Picking?"

[JohnRII]

Originally Posted by Squeezebox

Point of clarification on Libba Cotten (from Wikipedia):

Elizabeth Nevills was born in Carrboro, North Carolina, at the border of Chapel Hill, to a musical family. Her parents were George Nevills and Louise Price Nevills. Elizabeth was the youngest of five children. At age seven, Cotten began to play her older brother's banjo. By eight years old, she was playing songs. At 11, after scraping together some money, she bought her own guitar. She became very good at playing the instrument, which she named "Stella." By her early teens she was writing her own songs, one of which, Freight Train, would go on to be one of her most recognized. Cotten wrote Freight Train when she saw a train pass by her house on Lloyd Street in Carrboro, North Carolina.

I live just west of Carrboro and drive by those tracks all the time.

I also was very blessed to see Libba perform one night in Durham in the early '80's....I think Sweet Honey In the Rock was on the bill too that night....been a long time since I thought about that show

Lotsa Nevilles still around by they way

While I'm thinking about Chapel Hill / Carrboro music folks (no, not James Taylor) Floyd Council was from Chapel Hill....Pink Anderson + Floyd Council is where Pink Floyd got their name....Lotsa Councils still around the area too (Including Mama Dip..AKA Mildred Council)

Yup, must be something in the water around my neck of the woods.......(now if I could just find the right well to drink from)

And never mind the fact that she played her right handed brother's guitar left handed and didn't change the string positions. My brain hurts just thinking about that.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by JohnRII

And never mind the fact that she played her right handed brother's guitar left handed and didn't change the string positions. My brain hurts just thinking about that.

I suppose if you've never done it any other way, it seems the right way!

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by cc132

Seems odd to me that it would be named after Merle Travis, considering that there were quite a few musicians recording with this playing style years before him. .

Has someone already addressed the difference between the way Merle Travis picked the guitar and the unrelated (misnamed, IMO) pattern picking style called "Travis Picking"?

Merle's thumb style was very different, to my ear, than the alternating bass and Piedmont styles of pickers like John Hurt. Yes, the thumb in both cases strikes the strings every beat with an emphasis on the 2 and 4 back beat, but Travis would play The lowest string (sometimes more than one at a time, 6 and 5 say) on beats 1 and 3 and then play sort of muted brush on strings higher (say 4 and 3) on the beats 2 and 4. Very percussive! Contrast that with the way John Hurt played Spike Driver - I hear a more articulate thumb alternating between 6 and 4, sometimes 5 and 4.

Contemporary exponents of what I hear as the Travis thumb picking style would include players like Eddie Pennington. It sounds very different to me from the now deceased but relatively recent exponent of Piedmont picking, Jerry Ricks.

Some fine guitarist who I would not consider to be playing in the Merle Travis style would include virtually every country blues player I've ever heard.

Anyway, that's how I hear it.

[tpbiii]

Merle's thumb style was very different, to my ear, than the alternating bass and Piedmont styles of pickers like John Hurt. Yes, the thumb in both cases strikes the strings every beat with an emphasis on the 2 and 4 back beat, but Travis would play The lowest string (sometimes more than one at a time, 6 and 5 say) on beats 1 and 3 and then play sort of muted brush on strings higher (say 4 and 3) on the beats 2 and 4. Very percussive! Contrast that with the way John Hurt played Spike Driver - I hear a more articulate thumb alternating between 6 and 4, sometimes 5 and 4.

That is indeed true. That more percussive style, which requires the player "the grab the guitar like a hoe handle," wrapping the thumb around to do the required muting, is an innovation usually attributed to Mose Rager. I understand it was also used by Ike Everly, although I have never heard his playing.

Best,

-Tom

[Christian Reno]

Originally Posted by grampa

For a country musician guitar player to not know Big Bill or any other great from the past is inexcusable....

No, not really. It was a totally different era than our media driven society of today. Although Travis was from Kentucky, he also spent a lot of time in California. Unless Broonzey or any other artist was getting commercial radio play, how would anyone have known about them back then?

I think people now-a-days lose track of the fact that most of these great players came to light during the late 50's and early 60's (even though they had been playing long before) as white America started to discover the blues.

I have no idea what the date of this interview was that has been referred to, but Travis may not have kept up with anything other than mainstream country music, which was his bread and butter. Although he now is considered a significant folk artist , he certainly didn't see himself that way.

Regards,
Christian

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by tpbiii

...an innovation usually attributed to Mose Rager. I understand it was also used by Ike Everly, although I have never heard his playing.

Tom, spot on. But we are digging into a largely unrecorded history which also includes Arnold Shultz and Kennedy Jones. Most every modern student of fingerpicking guitar has at least heard the name Merle Travis.

Regards,
Michael

[tpbiii]

Hi Michael,

Tom, spot on. But we are digging into a largely unrecorded history which also includes Arnold Shultz and Kennedy Jones. Most every modern student of fingerpicking guitar has at least heard the name Merle Travis.

I totally agree! In addition, I think Arnold Shultz may well have been one of the most important musicians of the 20th century -- and he is almost invisible.

He certainly had a huge influence on Bill Monroe (who is certainly acknowledged as a major musical figure) , who credits him with all of his blue influences. Bluegrass is truly a mix of traditional Scots Irish music and African American music, and Shultz seems to have been the primary source of the latter. If you listen to Monroe's music from the late 30's, after he left Charlie and before he connected with Lester and Earl, his music really sounds just like rockabilly (e. g. Rocky Road Blues) -- more than ten years before anyone else was doing it. I think that came from his association with Shultz.

Of course, the other branch (Shultz-Jones-Rager-Travis-Atkins) is really the root branch of modern country music.

And I think we just missed hearing him. When he died, people were actively searching the country for both white and black rural musicians. Wouldn't that have been fine.

Best,

-Tom

[lroyb]

Lots of really good info and opinions on this thread. If you haven't read through them its worth doing so.

I just read through this entire thread - excellent information! I learned a lot and it whet my whistle to learn more. Great job folks!

[Zigeuner]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Right. Broonzy was a great player, but he wasn't well known outside certain circles.

Merle Travis might have been trying for a light tone in that TV interview, and in your indignation, BJF, perhaps you interpreted what he intended as a pleasant smile as a "smirk."

It seems pretty clear that the person interviewing him didn't warn him ahead of time who he was going to talk about, and Travis may have felt ambushed, as though the interviewer was trying to make him look stupid. I doubt that any of us would appreciate being put in that position, when you know that whatever you say is going to be broadcast (potentially) to millions.

So it's your loss if you decided to cut one of the all-time great American guitarists from your list because he didn't answer that question the way you thought he should have.


whm

When I was a student at UCLA (1962-1966) I often attended shows at the Ash Grove Music Club on Melrose Ave. in Los Angeles. During that time I saw many big names such as Merle Travis, Lightning Hopkins, Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee, Rev. Gary Davis, Son house, Muddy Waters, Doc Watson, Merle Watson, New Lost City Ramblers, (Tracy Schwartz, John Cohen, Mike Seeger), Mimi Farina, Taj Mahal, Kentucky Colonels (Clarence and Roland White), John Hammond, Ry Cooder, Bill Monroe, Linda Ronstadt, Ramblin' Jack Elliott, and the list goes on.

I honestly can't specifically remember the fine differences between the styles of the fingerpicking guitarists among them except to say that Merle travis was perhaps the most syncopated and regular in his fingerpicking style. When he was there he had his Martin D-28 with the Bigsby neck. The RV style vehicle that he arrived in was marked "Merle Travis Country Western Shows", IIRC.

I don't know whether he knew Big Bill Broonzy. According to Wikipedia, Bill Broonzy lived from 1898 to 1958 and did most of his playing to black audiences in the South in the 1920's and only towards the end of his life became more well known among the general Folk audiences. Until I got my first copy of The Folksinger's Guitar Guide, Vol I, I had not heard of him. Some of his songs are published in that book. He had passed away before the Ash Grove got started in 1958 or I'm certain that he would have played there. Merle Travis lived from 1917 to 1983 so he was a child at the time that Big Bill Broonzy was popular in the South.

From everything I've ever heard of Merle travis, he was a very nice man. I doubt that he would have meant to slight Bill Broonzy. It's possible that he had not heard of him. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. As to his "smirk", I saw him up close and he had a terrible scar on the side of his face which I was told came from a motorcycle wreck in the 1930's. Who knows, maybe he had trouble smiling. I just don't know.

One thing is certain about music in general and guitar and folk music, it certainly did a lot for race relations. In fact, music was a strong force in the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's. I know it did a lot for my attitude in that time. It was just nothing but fun and good times in that period and music still is for me.

Sadly, the Ash Grove burned down under suspicious circumstances in 1973 and never reopened. It was a wonderful place.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Grove_(music_club)

[Frosty]

Tom, and others interested in western Kentucky thumb-style playing, JT Oglesby has posted this on youtube:

Mose Rager playing Fanfare

[Fred]

Frosty--thanks for posting that. I didn't know there were any recordings from Mose Rager. One can certainly hear sician ow he influenced Travis. The other thing to remember about Travis is that he did have a nasty bout of drug addition....when he overcame that late in his life I don't think he completely recaptured his ability as a younger musician although he was still terrific. I also wonder if it might have affected his memory. That man went through a lot in his life. He paid a big price for success.

[tpbiii]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Tom, and others interested in western Kentucky thumb-style playing, JT Oglesby has posted this on youtube:

Mose Rager playing Fanfare

Marvelous!!! Thanks so much for posting.

Best,

-Tom

[devellis]

Originally Posted by lroyb

Lots of really good info and opinions on this thread. If you haven't read through them its worth doing so.

I did and it was.

[Long813]

Either way, this entire style of playing, what is it classed as 'country blues'? What ever, it's beautiful and I've been learning the style since I heard John Hurt.