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  #31  
Old 01-23-2021, 11:50 AM
mccartymind mccartymind is offline
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Originally Posted by CBarclay View Post
I
One other thing that is a huge consideration for me is the fretboard radius. It has come down to needing a 12" radius - 16" won't do at all. But if radius was the only thing, I'd keep my Martin 017 and have it re-radiused but since the neck is too thin as well my only option would be to re-neck it. Not gonna do that.
That's funny. I had strange thoughts of finding someone to put a different neck on my 000 15m. I also considered wearing bike gloves with fingers cut out to put extra padding in my palm. Not really though. Just trying to solve a problem.

Was your 0 17 a vintage? They don't make newer 0 17 guitars do they? There is an old one for sale several hours away that looks decent. Too expensive though. He'd have to come down.
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  #32  
Old 01-23-2021, 11:52 AM
CBarclay CBarclay is offline
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Originally Posted by mccartymind View Post
I think it's because who is drawn to these guitars. If you only finger pick then I can see the 12s being better. The extra punch is there for blues.
Very true. That bridge placement give a good punch.
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  #33  
Old 01-23-2021, 11:57 AM
CBarclay CBarclay is offline
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Originally Posted by mccartymind View Post
That's funny. I had strange thoughts of finding someone to put a different neck on my 000 15m. I also considered wearing bike gloves with fingers cut out to put extra padding in my palm. Not really though. Just trying to solve a problem.

Was your 0 17 a vintage? They don't make newer 0 17 guitars do they? There is an old one for sale several hours away that looks decent. Too expensive though. He'd have to come down.
(Sorry for the multiple quotes)

My 017 is a custom from 2017 I think). It was a one-off spec'd by Fred Oster at Vintage Instruments in Philly - it was a more budget friendly copy of a 1930 017 he owns. Mahogany top, sipo back and sides, x bracing (different from 15 series guitars), modern dovetail (I think that's what it's called) neck joint. A well thought out design in my very limited opinion.
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  #34  
Old 01-23-2021, 12:09 PM
mccartymind mccartymind is offline
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The other guitar company I’m looking at is Iris Guitar Company. If you haven’t heard of them, check em out. Vintage tone at affordable price. I need to play one in person. Sometimes they almost sound too brash as well but other times I’ve loved the sound I’ve heard on some of their videos. North American Guitar has lots of videos of their guys playing them. Anyway, that’s also in the running for me.
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  #35  
Old 01-23-2021, 12:12 PM
CBarclay CBarclay is offline
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I've had an eye on Iris for a while (there's one in the classifieds!) and love the idea. But I'd really need to play one as it's a complete unknown. Some of the design features are aesthetically 'not my favorite' which keeps putting me off but otherwise they seem to be a great contender.
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  #36  
Old 01-23-2021, 12:26 PM
OddManOut OddManOut is offline
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I think if you are seeking a strummer in the Waterloo line, you’re looking at the wrong line of guitars. I’d say that it probably the thing Waterloo’s do worst. They pretty perfectly capture the dry tones they set out to recreate and I can’t say they do much else real well.
I mostly agree with this sentiment. The dry vintage tone creates a lot of tonal string separation. My WL-S gets brash and somewhat "hollow" sounding when pick strumming, less so when finger strumming.

In playing through Gryphon's stock of Waterloos over a couple of years, I found the amount of vintage "boxy tone" varied between individual guitars regardless of the model. e.g. I got two very different levels of boxiness from two different examples of the Scissortail model. I picked up my WL-S because the boxy thing was minimal, its punch was phenomenal and the overtones were a tad more present than other Waterloos.

They do open up! The first year the bass on my WL-S was fairly tight, but has since relaxed and filled in. It's a little attack machine. Playing "Scarborough Fair" on it is something of a comedy routine.

Interesting Factoid: I was told by Collings/Waterloo that models listing "spruce" as the top wood (some/all models?) can have either Sitka or Adi. They wouldn't disclose (perhaps didn't record) specific species by serial number. This will make a difference in the tonal character of the guitar to be sure. A good picture of the top of a particular guitar might give you a clue if you're not buying in person.
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Last edited by OddManOut; 01-23-2021 at 12:32 PM.
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  #37  
Old 01-23-2021, 12:39 PM
mccartymind mccartymind is offline
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Originally Posted by OddManOut View Post
I mostly agree with this sentiment. The dry vintage tone creates a lot of tonal string separation. My WL-S gets brash and somewhat "hollow" sounding when pick strumming, less so when finger strumming.

In playing through Gryphon's stock of Waterloos over a couple of years, I found the amount of vintage "boxy tone" varied between individual guitars regardless of the model. e.g. I got two very different levels of boxiness from two different examples of the Scissortail model. I picked up my WL-S because the boxy thing was minimal, its punch was phenomenal and the overtones were a tad more present than other Waterloos.

They do open up! The first year the bass on my WL-S was fairly tight, but has since relaxed and filled in. It's a little attack machine. Playing "Scarborough Fair" on it is something of a comedy routine.

Interesting Factoid: I was told by Collings/Waterloo that models listing "spruce" as the top wood (some/all models?) can have either Sitka or Adi. They wouldn't disclose (perhaps didn't record) specific species by serial number. This will make a difference in the tonal character of the guitar to be sure. A good picture of the top of a particular guitar might give you a clue if you're not buying in person.
Thanks. Definitely a little attack machine that’s for sure. I love how Nathaniel Rateliff uses his. He has the Deluxe which I can tell the varnish calms the brash a bit. I noticed on my S the low E couldn’t keep up with everyone else and the A string was loudest of all. But even in the short time of playing it lots the low E got slightly better. It sounded fine with capo on 4. Then I barely had to touch it finger picking and the bass just rang.
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  #38  
Old 01-23-2021, 12:46 PM
gr81dorn gr81dorn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBarclay View Post
I've had an eye on Iris for a while (there's one in the classifieds!) and love the idea. But I'd really need to play one as it's a complete unknown. Some of the design features are aesthetically 'not my favorite' which keeps putting me off but otherwise they seem to be a great contender.
Iris will be 100x the strummer a Waterloo will ever be. After all my many many Waterloo’s, Iris came out and I bought the first one and it did all the things I was hoping a Waterloo would do.

SIMILAR vibe in its stripped down nature and affordable
Offering from a high end shop, but completely different animals and Iris just has so much more range because it’s not trying to be an old, dry sounding depression era guitar at all.
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  #39  
Old 01-23-2021, 01:25 PM
thomasinaz thomasinaz is offline
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I have two Waterloos, both JKs: 1 Rosewood backed and 1 Mahogany. I bought them used and they both sound very good played with a pick. No finger picking here, so I can't help with that. I strum mostly, with some single note fillers thrown in, and enjoy the large sound they each make. I bought the mahogany one after I had the rosewood for some time. I planned on playing them for a while, then selling the one I liked least. I've had a difficult time deciding and may end up keeping both. (Another broken promise to myself. ) The mahogany one has a similar sound to a J-45 I once had, but with more trebles. The rosewood has a little deeper and mellow sound, but both project a lot of sound if I let them loose. The JKs are Dreadnought size guitars so may not be what you're looking for. But I hope this little bit of info helps.
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  #40  
Old 01-23-2021, 01:50 PM
mccartymind mccartymind is offline
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https://youtu.be/zf7z8MGhMUc

I love how she plays this 12.

How do you embed the video in here?!
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  #41  
Old 01-23-2021, 01:54 PM
mccartymind mccartymind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr81dorn View Post
Iris will be 100x the strummer a Waterloo will ever be. After all my many many Waterloo’s, Iris came out and I bought the first one and it did all the things I was hoping a Waterloo would do.

SIMILAR vibe in its stripped down nature and affordable
Offering from a high end shop, but completely different animals and Iris just has so much more range because it’s not trying to be an old, dry sounding depression era guitar at all.
Hmmmmm. Too many decisions! Thanks for this input though. I almost had Adam make me a custom order all hog with the exact neck and radius I need. Still might but it’s 4 months away.
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  #42  
Old 01-23-2021, 02:08 PM
mccartymind mccartymind is offline
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I would probably play similar to this when using a pic. Sounds good here. Might be a bit bright.

https://youtu.be/e4VsF9V_1Ow
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  #43  
Old 01-23-2021, 02:17 PM
EllenGtrGrl EllenGtrGrl is offline
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There are no Waterloo dealers in my neck of the woods (southeastern Wisconsin), but I wanted a 12-fret 00 sized mahogany guitar, so I bought a WL12-MH off of Reverb. It was a great guitar, with a nice and chunky neck (I don't like thin necks, so this suited me just fine). Sound-wise - well, I have to echo in my own way what others have alluded to in previous posts - it sounds wonderful as long as you play with a light touch, so fingerpicking, and light strumming are its forte. I'm not a fingerpicker though (flat picking's my thing), and I like to dig in when I strum. So, unfortunately, the WL12-MH just didn't work with my playing style. Sound and note separation-wise it had a tendency compress badly, more than occasionally sounding a little woofy, when I played it. I wanted to like the WL12-MH, but it just wasn't happening, so I ended up getting rid of it several months later. Sadly, when you buy online, without a chance to try it beforehand, that is a risk you take (winding up with a guitar that just doesn't work for you).
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  #44  
Old 01-23-2021, 02:36 PM
mccartymind mccartymind is offline
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Thanks everyone for your replies and experience, I really appreciate it!! They are all useful.
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  #45  
Old 01-23-2021, 02:43 PM
hairpuller hairpuller is offline
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Big Tweedy guy, too!

My 00018 GE with retros was a match made in heaven!

My WL-12 was super dry and a joy to play, but pretty one dimensional.

Why not get a MARTIN 00 Jeff Tweedy?

Good luck!
Scott
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