New Acoustic Amp - Mesa Boogie Rosette

[troggg]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Sounds nice on the Mesa video



Of course it is advertisement but you can hear the difference between the anthem and the piezo equipped guitars

On second thought that demo does exhibit high quality and hi fi sound; I think the first time through I may not have been as moved by the demo songs as I was by the ones played by Acus demonstrators.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by troggg

Acus should consider another US distributor since the present one is terrible at answering questions, returning messages, and getting the amps into stores. I mean if you can't find one in LA where are you going to find one? Well, Dallas. That's the only place in America that seems to know about them. Acus does know how to do youtube demos right.

You should try a Schertler JAM then. They are nearly the same amps. They are built in factories separated by 15 min drive... Or something like that.

Note that if Rosette is not a sucess Mesa Boogie could discontinue the product and abandon the acoustic market very fast...

Call Westwood music
1627 Westwood Boulevard
Los Angeles, California 90024
https://www.westwoodmusic.com/produc...tler-jam-wood/
They seem to have a JAM 200

LA guitar sales have a Giulia (low power, small speaker: no bass)
https://www.laguitarsales.com/index....ustic-amp.html

Cuki

[Hurricane Ramon]

Really a nice amp over all . I would consider one in the future .

I've a really nice sounding 20 year old X1 12" Carvin tube amp I use as an acoustic guitar amp , it's clean channel
pre amp section is really good . It sports a 60 watt amp using El34s both for electric and acoustic guitars , it deliver's
on both really good , never failed me once .

Not much use for vocals though , like the old timer's stuff from the 50's & 60's who sang through their guitar amps .
It's a heavy amp but lighter than the Marshall 60 watt tube with X2 12"s I sold to buy the Carvin .

I've a Polytone Mini Brute lll lV P.A. 3 channel but it as good as it is , it sports only HiHz inputs including the mic .
It's a killer with a PBass , acoustic or electric guitar and vocal going all at once . It's quite an amazing experience to use .
SS 95 watts with two cabs with 10" & 8" drivers , and a really sweet light weight package to tote too .

Recently I got a 150 watt portable acoustic guitar amp / P.A. that has a tri amp'd type system pumping 75 clean watts to
a single 8" driver summed to mono and 75 watts in stereo split by to two Hi Hz tweeters . It's lightweight nature makes up for it's

lack of cosmetic good looks , compared to the Mesa Rosette .

some hate it . I kind of dig it's modern look . It does a really good job on stereo projection too . It's not a heavy weight
compared to other units with more power but , small venues are no issue and it's a great stage personal monitor too .

These newer amps are really stepping up to the plate for acoustic instrument performers , and it's about time too .

I like the tilt the Mesa Rosette cab has , the cabinetry joinery is a super plus for looks .

Mine has a tilt adapter as well as being a pole mount bracket . Elevated high and securely on top of it's
heavy duty pole/speaker stand it really projects big time . It's got a great FX section and analog 1/8" stereo in's
or Bluetooth input/control / X2 XLR or TRS inputs & a mono line out . Very competitive with the Rosette IMHO
at a significant price differential .

Like the Mesa Rosette it lacks Phantom power so to solve this situation I got a guitar/vocal FX unit with one XLR phantom
powered mic input , that loops

I've lightened my gear load these days thanks to technology and I'm glad , my back is also very grateful .

Only reason I wouldn't get a Mesa Rosette is it's weight factor , cause they look and sound really good to me .

EZ :

HR

[troggg]

Originally Posted by Hurricane Ramon

Only reason I wouldn't get a Mesa Rosette is it's weight factor , cause they look and sound really good to me ]

Uh, I picked one up easily enough and I'm not gonna win Olympic gold in dead lifting. Seriously, it was much lighter than I expected.

[troggg]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

You should try a Schertler JAM then. They are nearly the same amps. They are built in factories separated by 15 min drive... Or something like that.

Note that if Rosette is not a sucess Mesa Boogie could discontinue the product and abandon the acoustic market very fast...

Call Westwood music
1627 Westwood Boulevard
Los Angeles, California 90024
https://www.westwoodmusic.com/produc...tler-jam-wood/
They seem to have a JAM 200

LA guitar sales have a Giulia (low power, small speaker: no bass)
https://www.laguitarsales.com/index....ustic-amp.html

Cuki

Hey thanks for the LA links but I was just visiting. Now I'm back on my 8 foot wide dirt road in the middle of nowhere outside Taos, New Mexico. No traffic, but no higher end amps either ...

[troggg]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

I played through the Rosette for about an hour and liked the guitar sound, but the vocal projection was not in the same league as my Schertlers (Jam 400 and Jam 200) nor was the low end. That said, it was a very balanced sounding amp with none of the plastic/reedy sound of cheaper acoustic guitar amps. And the preamp EQ and FX were effective and very good sounding. I especially like the three parameters with the high and low pass for adjusting reverbs. Also the connectivity (in/outs) were great although I would have liked to see a dedicated sub out, and, it would be cool if Boogie would design a cabinet for low end extension of this amp. What this amp would be killer for is reasonable stage volume and then slaving into bigger house systems. I may buy one just for that purpose. I was impressed. I am going to bring one of my bigger powered PA cabs to the store and use the direct out into that and see how it sounds.

Yeah, the vocal aspect is my biggest concern. I know that is people's biggest lament with AER. While I can't really imagine Schertler/Acus would be clearly better for guitar, the Jams and the Acus One 8 for instance definitely offer greatly flexibility for use as small PAs. And they certainly don't come up short in the guitar tone department.

And then there's that 12V phantom power thing ... I just received the Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina and haven't had a chance to check it out yet, but every time I've heard one live it really lured me in (Milk Carton Kids, for example). I was thinking of combining the plugged in sound with what the Edwina picked up ... seems promising in my mind at least.

I know you're very familiar with Schertler Jam and I've enjoyed your various reports on them. Have you any first hand experience with Acus?

[Pecx]

Indeed. The vocal aspect and the price asked, are the worst parts of this Rosette.

The Schertler and Acus are better overall products (price wise also). I've played with both and also own Schertler.

[troggg]

Originally Posted by Pecx

Indeed. The vocal aspect and the price asked, are the worst parts of this Rosette.

The Schertler and Acus are better overall products (price wise also). I've played with both and also own Schertler.

Yeah the Mesa list price only philosophy is more than a little hard to swallow. I have found some semi decent discounts on Acus available.

So you've actually heard and played with Mesa, Schertler and Acus and would go with Acus One 8 or Schertler Jam 200 over Rosette?

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by KevWind

But I would agree with those questioning the 12 v phantom power decision by Messa, and although one can get an outboard unit , seems like 24 (now the standard) would make it all the more appealing . While there are a number of mics that can run on 12 v there are also a number of mfgs that recommend 24 and up

Good question. As the principle engineer behind the Rosette Let me answer this question first with a bit of history, as this might help with understanding the answer. I wish to avoid appearing like I am not complying with the manufacturer's forum rules, but at the same time I have received a couple of PM's at another forum pointing me to this thread as they also had the same questions.

The original use (and standardization) of phantom power was by Schoeps in the middle 1960s and was 9-12V. This is why on many condenser mics, you see the 9V reference as the bottom of the range. a few years later, Neumann manufactured a condenser mic that would operate on 48V phantom power, simply modified from one of their own mic that operated with 12V phantom, simply because the radio studios had an available 48 volt DC bus used to power other electronics and lighting. A side "benefit" was increased headroom from the externally biased condenser element This modified mic became the KM-84, and because of the modification it required ~48V and would no longer operate at 9-12V and the 12V versions would not operate safely at 48V.

One of the challenges with phantom power and modern back electret or internally biased elements is increased noise when operated at 48V due to the dropping networks required. Internally biased elements do not suffer from any significant headroom issue compared with externally biased elements. In fact, all self biased or back-electret condensers that I am aware of drop the phantom voltage internally to less than 12V, otherwise they would self-destruct. There is an IEC motion under way to eliminate 48 volt phantom power and to make P-24 (24V) the highest standard along with the P-12 standard.

Developing a product with phantom power is a challenge because there is always this trade-off between voltage and noise. It's specially more difficult when trying to keep the physical size small, as an additional power supply takes up significant room in a compact amplifier. Since the vast majority of condenser mics on the market operate just fine at the 9-12V level (also called the IEC 61938:2013 (P12) standard), this is the one we chose... and in fact we are not alone in this choice. None of the 3 major U.S. manufacturers offer 48 volt phantom power on their acoustic amps.

It should also be noted that many condenser mics that state 48 volt phantom power only actually work well at 9-12V. Some suffer from reduced maximum headroom, but this is rarely a problem with acoustic instruments (a reduction from 126 to 118dB is still WAY more than is necessary for acoustic guitar but maybe not for drums). Actually, it has been seen as a (marketing) badge of honor, bragging rights, for a mic to operate at 48 volts, driving the marketing folks behind such products to represent them this way.

I have developed a chart that documents about 175 different models of condenser mic and their suitability with the different phantom power standards. I don't see how to post a PDF, but if you would like a copy of this just PM me with your e-mail address and I will be happy to send you a copy. It might help clear up some of your questions.

--Andy

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Good question. As the principle engineer behind the Rosette Let me answer this question first with a bit of history, as this might help with understanding the answer. I wish to avoid appearing like I am not complying with the manufacturer's forum rules, but at the same time I have received a couple of PM's at another forum pointing me to this thread as they also had the same questions.

The original use (and standardization) of phantom power was by Schoeps in the middle 1960s and was 9-12V. This is why on many condenser mics, you see the 9V reference as the bottom of the range. a few years later, Neumann manufactured a condenser mic that would operate on 48V phantom power, simply modified from one of their own mic that operated with 12V phantom, simply because the radio studios had an available 48 volt DC bus used to power other electronics and lighting. A side "benefit" was increased headroom from the externally biased condenser element This modified mic became the KM-84, and because of the modification it required ~48V and would no longer operate at 9-12V and the 12V versions would not operate safely at 48V.

One of the challenges with phantom power and modern back electret or internally biased elements is increased noise when operated at 48V due to the dropping networks required. Internally biased elements do not suffer from any significant headroom issue compared with externally biased elements. In fact, all self biased or back-electret condensers that I am aware of drop the phantom voltage internally to less than 12V, otherwise they would self-destruct. There is an IEC motion under way to eliminate 48 volt phantom power and to make P-24 (24V) the highest standard along with the P-12 standard.

Developing a product with phantom power is a challenge because there is always this trade-off between voltage and noise. It's specially more difficult when trying to keep the physical size small, as an additional power supply takes up significant room in a compact amplifier. Since the vast majority of condenser mics on the market operate just fine at the 9-12V level (also called the IEC 61938:2013 (P12) standard), this is the one we chose... and in fact we are not alone in this choice. None of the 3 major U.S. manufacturers offer 48 volt phantom power on their acoustic amps.

It should also be noted that many condenser mics that state 48 volt phantom power only actually work well at 9-12V. Some suffer from reduced maximum headroom, but this is rarely a problem with acoustic instruments (a reduction from 126 to 118dB is still WAY more than is necessary for acoustic guitar but maybe not for drums). Actually, it has been seen as a (marketing) badge of honor, bragging rights, for a mic to operate at 48 volts, driving the marketing folks behind such products to represent them this way.

I have developed a chart that documents about 175 different models of condenser mic and their suitability with the different phantom power standards. I don't see how to post a PDF, but if you would like a copy of this just PM me with your e-mail address and I will be happy to send you a copy. It might help clear up some of your questions.

--Andy

Hey thanks for taking the time to post
I was aware of the wiki version of the basic history of phantom power, but not the tech aspects, and insight on first hand reasoning so .
I am a fairly big fan of US mfg in music and pro audio. I will PM thanks

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Hey thanks for taking the time to post
I was aware of the wiki version of the basic history of phantom power, but not the tech aspects, and insight on first hand reasoning so .
I am a fairly big fan of US mfg in music and pro audio. I will PM thanks

Yes, THANK YOU, Andy - that was very informative!

[Nailpicker]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Hey thanks for taking the time to post
I was aware of the wiki version of the basic history of phantom power, but not the tech aspects, and insight on first hand reasoning so .
I am a fairly big fan of US mfg in music and pro audio. I will PM thanks

Originally Posted by MaurysMusic

Yes, THANK YOU, Andy - that was very informative!

Yes. I agree with KW and MM. Thanks for the informative post. I recently purchased the Rosette PRE/DI and am procrastinating (until I read more reviews and get together the money) getting the Rosette amp. Unlike some other posters in this thread, I think the price for a quality U.S. made amp is reasonable. To my thinking, given early reviews and some of the video recordings, overall it is quite competitive with the likes of AER, Schertler, etal.

[Puerto Player]

Originally Posted by Nailpicker

Yes. I agree with KW and MM. Thanks for the informative post. I recently purchased the Rosette PRE/DI and am procrastinating (until I read more reviews and get together the money) getting the Rosette amp. Unlike some other posters in this thread, I think the price for a quality U.S. made amp is reasonable. To my thinking, given early reviews and some of the video recordings, overall it is quite competitive with the likes of AER, Schertler, etal.

I've been thinking about the Rosette Pre/Di as well. How is it in dialing out the quack and mids and getting good 3D tone out of it?

[Nailpicker]

Originally Posted by Puerto Player

I've been thinking about the Rosette Pre/Di as well. How is it in dialing out the quack and mids and getting good 3D tone out of it?

I'll send PM shortly.

[Hurricane Ramon]

Originally Posted by troggg

Uh, I picked one up easily enough and I'm not gonna win Olympic gold in dead lifting. Seriously, it was much lighter than I expected.

Hello troggg :

Cool it's not an issue for you , I am envious 30Lbs vs 15lbs is/are 15 reasons why I prefer my amp
, it's nifty padded carrying tote case helps to distribute the weigh when setting up and breaking down .

It was chosen for it's spec's being excellent sound wise , ease of use ( Blue Tooth control ) , synth
sounds through this system are remarkably good with stereo imagery . Function and form come to
mind here for me as well as it's lightweight nature . My electric acoustic nylon & steel stringed
guitars explode beautifully out of it .

May not seem like much but add the harp case & bullet mic , guitar & case , FX looper stomp ,
midi synth floor module , mic & stand , speaker stand , gear case , stool and cables etcetera .

These when added up to my herniated spinal column and , well there it is :.........

I am putting together a even smaller light weight killer IOS system to further lightening up my load .
It will eliminate the floor synth module and guitar/vocal FX looper stomp unit too . This will be totally self
contained and not need AC power .

I have this already with my present system [ 2 lithium 20,00Amh DC power banks ] one supplying
DC to a AC converter for the synth module and DC for the looper and Hot Hot 3 wireless
whaw whaw ring's floor unit . My acoustic amp/P.A. has it's own rechargeable lithium ion battery that
lasts 10 hours on a single charge .

I talkin lightening up man

Besides the live busking and coffee house's I'm doing now , I'm headed for the Big Island of Hawaii and
do shows at venues that are off the power grid . This portable acoustic /P.A. amp of mine is just killer
for multiple applications , I'm getting a second one too , with two any night club of moderate size can be
handled nicely with that kind of power . I've used the monitor out to the front end of a big room's P.A. system ,
it work's great for a monitor on stage .

All in all I do like this Mesa Rosette .

EZ :

HR