#46
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New mics - Line Audio CM4
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Hi Chris I have, this morning, revisited the track and done the following; Adjusted the dynamic EQ as follows; Band 1 : 80hz / -3.5db Band 2 : 110hz / -3.5db Band 3 188hz (slightly less reduction at -1.4db) High pass : 55hz The cuts are fairly wide in Q - this may be too much so I’d like to hear your view on this. This seems to match the problem areas - see pic. It certainly sounds different - more clarity but also less bass in general so have I taken the body out of the track too much or to your ears does it just sound clearer. I am trying to learn what I should be listening to and hearing - not easy. Screenshot 2020-09-22 at 10.48.48.jpg By way of some form of control - here is a clean re-recording as you suggested done this morning and with nothing at all added except for a level adjustment and the body side mic raised a touch
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig Last edited by Wrighty; 09-22-2020 at 01:16 PM. |
#47
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Aloha - Much Better Peter
Aloha Peter,
Thanks for going to the trouble of re-editing "Celandine." You are so open to trying different approaches right away. That is so cool for those trying to help. Again, your playing is excellent. The newly edited version is dramatically improved, especially compared to the 'control' version you added - thank you for that. Do you hear the huge differences? Your roll-off EQing of the lower-mid freq's has paid off. End of most distortion, lotsa clarity. You could still come down just a tad off @ 110Hz. Overall, only a few hinto fuzzy intro notes remain & no more distortion. Great Clarity across the spectrum. Doesn't sound too scooped either. A Solid acoustic recording, mostly. Question: How far out are the mic's on this piece. Using the new mic's? (Man, I'd love to hear that recorded on CMC641's or M295's). The changes you made really draw the intended drama out of "Celandine," plus your great, expressive playing is elevated, but without the distraction of any distortion. Your sensitive take on that piece shows that you really value that important space between the notes as well as the notes themselves. Some would call it "God's Beat." And whatever you do to promote or "play" that is what makes the slower, subtle pieces like "Celandine" truly come alive. Again, Alex DeGrassi's layering of his notes & runs comes to mind. Doug Young's too. Good Take, Peter. Keep refining it - but again, take the 'less is more approach,' espoused by Doug & Derek &...me. Change the mic placement (back a bit?) & use subtractive EQ before rushing to plug-in's, like less Ozone or any digital fixes. Very light reverb(s) if any. Very light compression, but only if the piece demands it. I avoided compression on just about all my recordings & was glad, (not a Hedges-style tapper here) even though I had a very smooth, high-end UA 1176 external analog compression unit for years. Never used it much except lightly on some vocals. I love basic, unplugged acoustic guitar sound too much to process it very much for recording. Back when we had to use Dolby noise reduction on analog tape, I mostly hated what it did to the subtleties & nuances of the acoustic guitar. Always a compromise with tape hiss. Keep an eye on how Doug Young (& Derek) records his exceptional acoustic recordings, Peter. Despite the great gear, great guitars, tunings & technique, he uses the tools very sparingly & discreetly, with the lightest of touches in editing & mastering. Here's something he shared at AGF a decade ago that may change your perception of how to track, edit & master a solo guitar piece from start to finish on a great signal chain, & with help from a respected ME. This is a game changer for those who are well into learning the DAW recording process & need another road map. Enjoy Peter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5kCVXyQDys You can also listen to the wav. file on Doug's site. Maximize the clip quality to 1080p HD. Bravo Peter! More! More! Hana Hou! alohachris Last edited by alohachris; 09-23-2020 at 03:30 PM. |
#48
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Aloha Chris - and thank you for taking the time to listen again and contribute to my learning process so much, I really do appreciate it and it is one of the reasons this forum is so great.
I do hear that the new EQ version is so much cleaner and felt it was better - so it is great to have that confirmed so I can re-listen to it and get my ear tuned. The mics were close - about 10” away from the guitar so I can certainly try moving them further back. Lots to process (so to speak) here - again, thanks.
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig |
#49
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Bob, can I ask you a further question pls? I understand why I would cut a sibilant point out of a shelved eq, but I often see high frequency points in dynamic eq without a shelf - in this case why would I increase gain only to compress? Surely I’d be better off reducing gain and then compressing and only increasing gain where I want to expand. Does that make sense? Thx Peter
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig |
#50
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Bob
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"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website) |
#51
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Thanks Bob. I’m trying to understand why you might boost the gain of a frequency, only then to compress it once it reaches the threshold you set - to my mind if I boost then I’d want to expand once the threshold is hit and not compress. So cut would be matched with compress and boost with expand - but that’s not always the case it appears.
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig |
#52
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In my earlier example in Pro-Fab Q I did it a little differently. I reduced the volume of a broad band range of frequencies, listened to the effect and then partially brought back up the volume of certain narrow frequency ranges within that broad band reduction that I wanted to hear more of. The dynamic option was not selected. Another thing you can easily do in Pro-Fab Q is individually equalize (dynamically or not) the R and L channels of a stereo track (for example sometimes a harsh sounding frequency comes from one mike and not the other). Moderately done with a narrow frequency band I have not noticed any spatial soundstage oddity. However you can get carried away tweaking things if you get into the minutia.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 09-24-2020 at 06:02 PM. |
#53
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That makes sense Derek. In that example you would still be increasing volume on a selected frequency then choosing to expand it (not compress) - so I still can’t see any reason for increasing gain and then compressing?
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig |
#54
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Personally I have never used compression in a final track and probably won't use the dynamic feature of Pro-Fab Q. If I have some note(s) I want louder (or quieter) I would create a volume envelope. In my example I wanted to lower a wide range of frequencies to clean up a congested (muddy) sound and then listening to that I found a few frequencies (notes) within that range to bring back up a little. That seemed like the most logical and quick way to deal with it. It's all about volume levels, not compressed dynamic ranges.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#55
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Ok, now I understand, thanks for taking the time to explain :-)
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig |