Hardware Effects in Logic

[Rick Shepherd]

Ok, I figured it out.

[Doug Young]

You got it? The whole idea of a bus is sort like a little detour - you send a signal to it, you do something to the signal on the bus, then you send the result somewhere else - usually the master out, where it blends back in.

[Rick Shepherd]

Doug, the thing is, I was already able to blend in the effects without the sends just by varying the aux channel fader. So this does not make sense to me..

[Doug Young]

Well, the thing is, Logic has enough features that there are endless ways to do things, so what counts is that you find a way that works for you. I'm not quite picturing what you're doing, but if it works, great.

But the typical way of using a single reverb is to have that single reverb available somewhere, such as on a bus. The output of that bus - the output of the reverb - goes to the master out. Then you determine how much reverb is on any given track by how much you send to the reverb from that track.

If you had a hardware mixer, just a Mackie board or something, this would simply be pre-wired. You have a master reverb level knob, and you use that to control the maximum amount of reverb. Then you'd determine how much reverb is on any given track with the reverb control on each track. Thats the "send". It sends a variable amount of signal from each track to a bus, which goes to the reverb, then the output of the reverb goes to the master output. So all I'm trying to show you how to do is what every basic hardware mixer with reverb on it does.

it'd probably be easier with a demo than with words. It's *really* simple.

[Rick Shepherd]

Without even creating sends, I am hearing two things. I hear the raw guitar tracks, and I also hear the guitar tracks with 100% effect from my lexicon. So, creating sends in this case accomplishes what exactly?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

Without even creating sends, I am hearing two things. I hear the raw guitar tracks, and I also hear the guitar tracks with 100% effect from my lexicon. So, creating sends in this case accomplishes what exactly?

it determines how much reverb is on each track. Let me see if I can whip up a quick demo.

[Rick Shepherd]

I understand that the sends are supplying the raw track signal to the aux channel effects bus, but I already hear a mix of the two signals without the use of sends.

If I were to now add another track, say a dry track with no effect, how would I be able to bounce to a wav file without the effect from the aux channel? Do you see my dilemma? Once I create an aux effect channel, I am stuck with the effect on the whole mix.

If I turn the send volume down all the way, I still hear the effects.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

If I were to now add another track, say a dry track with no effect, how would I be able to bounce to a wav file without the effect from the aux channel?

That's exactly why you use sends. Just don't send any signal from the track you want left dry to the reverb. It will be dry, unless you send that track to the reverb. Here's a quick and dirty demo of how I'd set this up with 2 tracks that can have arbitrary amounts of reverb on each, from lots to none. Let me know I'm not understanding the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjc7vfsMa00

[Rick Shepherd]

Thanks for that Doug. That is exactly what I do and successfully when I use software plugins. In this case, using an outboard effects box, I have introduced another factor, which I believe might be where the problem exists. My Profire 610 interface is what I use to patch in the effects unit. It is software controlled, so maybe that is where the problem is, otherwise, why would I get the effects in the bounced wav file if I didn't use sends? See what I am saying?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

Thanks for that Doug. That is exactly what I do and successfully when I use software plugins. In this case, using an outboard effects box, I have introduced another factor, which I believe might be where the problem exists. My Profire 610 interface is what I use to patch in the effects unit. It is software controlled, so maybe that is where the problem is, otherwise, why would I get the effects in the bounced wav file if I didn't use sends? See what I am saying?

Ah, that may be a whole different issue. When I used hardware sends I used a hardware interface with 8 ins and 8 outs. I could have my main out to hardware channels 1&2, which goes to my monitos, and the reverb box patched to hardware channel ouputs 3&4, and bring the reverb back in thru hardware inputs 3&4. You really have to have hardware busses to support the Logic I/O busses if you're using external devices. If you don't have the hardware to support this, you'd probably be better off using software reverbs. The software stuff out there, even the free stuff, gives all but the very best (expensive) hardware a real run for the money these days.

[Rick Shepherd]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I could have my main out to hardware channels 1&2, which goes to my monitos, and the reverb box patched to hardware channel ouputs 3&4, and bring the reverb back in thru hardware inputs 3&4

The way you have described is exactly how I am connected to my Profire 610. The problem being this controller software that messes with my head. It is way too complicated!

[Doug Young]

I'm not familiar with the Profire, unfortunately. But I'm guessing you have some sort of additional routing layer. I have the same thing with my RME card, could basically do bus-routing completely in the TotalMix software that runs that, outside of Logic, and really mess things up :-) But the default settings on that pretty much just maps everything normally, so it does what I expect, and I can treat each input and output channel as independent, no cross-sends at that level.

[Joseph Hanna]

Yea that Profire software has thrown a wrench in things since way back when we first started to talk. I'm tellin' ya Rick I've been mixing "in the box" since the utter infancy of software recording. I worked at Digi for some years and I worked for Apple/Logic as well. I'm mixing sometimes 7 days a week and around the clock. In all of that insanity I have never EVER used an interim sub application to mix signals between the hardware and the DAW.

Are you sure you "must" use that software. Life would be MUCH easier if you didn't have to get involved in that routing birds nest.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

That's exactly why you use sends. Just don't send any signal from the track you want left dry to the reverb. It will be dry, unless you send that track to the reverb. Here's a quick and dirty demo of how I'd set this up with 2 tracks that can have arbitrary amounts of reverb on each, from lots to none. Let me know I'm not understanding the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjc7vfsMa00

That was waaay nice of you to take the time to create this demo Doug! Have you ever mixed in Pro Tools?

[Rick Shepherd]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

That was waaay nice of you to take the time to create this demo Doug! Have you ever mixed in Pro Tools?

Doug, thanks so very much for your assistance and taking the time to provide the demo. You went way out of your way to help out!


Rick