String tension and feel- Something I hadn't considered

[Brucebubs]

I have a set of Santa Cruz Low Tension strings on a guitar.
Yes, they feel noticeably easier to play when compared to 'standard' strings.
Not life changing huge but it is noticeable.
Enough to make me want to use them exclusively on all my guitars?
No.

[charles Tauber]

Let's recap, shall we?

You stated that you feel a difference in string tension on two similar guitars. Mr. Hoover stated it might be due to differences in top stiffness. You then conjectured that the difference in tension you feel might be due to one guitar having a Sitka spruce X-brace and the other having a red spruce X-brace.

I stated that while it seems plausible, it is not likely the cause of the difference.

Mr. Zoom impolitely challenged me to justify my statement, rather than ask you to justify your conjecture. At that point, I offered some suggestions as to why I would make my statement that the difference in X-brace material is not likely the cause of the difference in tension you feel.

At no time did I suggest that anyone would chose a string tension based on any of that.

Originally Posted by vindibona1

The "math" really doesn't matter one iota Charles. Nobody is ever going to select a guitar or strings based on the mathematically measured stiffness of tops or bracing.

Agreed, nobody is going to. I didn't suggest they would.

What we do know is in this case the strings were designed with a given tension in mind, hopefully manufactured to a high degree of consistency, but feel different when simultaneously sampled on two different guitars that have near identical exterior measurements and near identical setups. It was just a concept conveyed to me that sort of explained my perception of what I felt.

No problem with that.

Is my perception of similarity due to different bracing or tops? I can't say.

And, that is what this discussion has been about. I offered some reasoning as to why it probably isn't what you conjectured it was.

At some point the scientists and mathematicians have to realize that the human being often experiences things that cannot be easily measured, or measured at all.

The wise ones already realize that.

At some point, non-scientists and non-mathematicians have to realize that there are aspects of life that have objective evidence to support or refute beliefs. Simply believing something is true doesn't make it so. The wise ones already realize that.

The thread was a call to anyone who may have experienced something similar or something for some to consider when deciding between two tensions of this specific brand of strings.

You stated it yourself that nobody is going to attempt to match their string choice to the stiffness of their top or what X-brace material is used.

[srick]

Some notes for you all as to why I have heavily edited this thread: this is an interesting topic. And it's a very plausible suggestion from Richard Hoover that flexibility of the top has a direct impact on string tension. I happen to have a Bourgeois 00 Country Boy with an adi top that is a great example of a stiff feeling guitar.

So the problem in the thread is getting too personal and sniping back and forth. Please try to be more "clinical" in your discussions. Very few of our technical discussions have clear scientific evidence to back them up. There's a lot of opinion and conjecture. So leave it there. Respect each other's opinion and move forward. And please, don't attack each other over a topic as murky as the flexibility of a guitar top, and how it relates to perceived string tension - life is way too short.

Thanks for listening.


Rick - AGF moderator

[srick]

PS - Comments on moderator action are not allowed on AGF (positive or negative), but we appreciate the positive ones! Comments are best handled through a PM. OK - so now let's figure out how to loosen up the feel of my Bourgeois 00 with the Adirondack top.

BTW- I have part of that answer - keep playing it hard!

Rick

[saxlylong]

I feel there is definitely merit to this conversation. My J-45 is very particular about string gauge, and more specifically tension. You can read many other threads about medium gauge "choking" the tone of various J-45s. 13's sound dead once the tone settles, but 12's completely open the guitar up. I have experimented with many different string brands, alloys, and gauges. I think it comes back to tension on the top and how the top flexes. That seems to be individual per guitar, even of the same model and year.

I am currently beta testing the new D'Addario coated strings, but these recent Santa Cruz strings threads have interested me. I really want to try them or the Straight Up Strings cousins. My big concern is their offering in Phosphor Bronze ONLY. My J-45 is a darker-voiced example of ones I have played. 80/20 sounds best by far, but EJ16 PB's do sound nice as well. All other darker PB's don't work well (Pearse, etc).

I have not seen any direct comparison of the Santa Cruz tone to any other kinds of widely available strings in the many threads I went through. Most of the discussion is on tension. What other set of PB strings could you compare the settled tone to? I have seen Sunbeams thrown around quite a bit in the threads, and I wasn't really a fan, but I tried those in 13's which may have been the problem (even though they are low tension strings).

I am really interested in the effect of tone of a more balanced tension across the bridge of my J-45. I wish Santa Cruz or SUS offered 80/20.