Tonedexter Observations

[mondoslug]

Thanks for posting on this,

So...is it giggable with a K&K type pickup to Tonedexter....with a drummer?
Not totally slamming drummer but still, drums on stage. Would it be the usual, I'd still probably be better off triggering the thing with an under saddle piezo as opposed to a K&K type device - for playing with a drummer?

Thanks!

[RogerPease]

There are people here who gig with their Tonedexter. Less sure about the drummer part,
but why wouldn’t it work? You might EQ the guitar a bit differently with a band but that’s easy.

From previous threads the K&K seems be a definite design target for the Tonedexter team. Under
saddle pickups work, too. But there are some that only work with caveats and some that
do not work. Be sure to check the AudioSprockets.com website before plunking down cash.

Cheers!

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by mondoslug

So...is it giggable with a K&K type pickup to Tonedexter....with a drummer?
Thanks!

Yes I've had great results with the K&K and the Schatten HFN.

[Gordon Currie]

I was looking for a second ToneDexter for my wife/duo partner, and I saw someone on AGF offer one WITH an SM-81 for the price of a new ToneDexter.

Since the ToneDexter hasn't been around super long, I reasoned that it was extremely unlikely to have ANY wear and tear, so it was a no-brainer: a free quality lightly used microphone.

I had already made nice wavemaps using Line Audio CM3 (flat SDC) and iSK Starlight (pretty flat LDC) but the SM-81 just excelled for me with every guitar I tried.

If I were hunting for an SM-81 today, I would look for a used one. They are a lot more rugged than many condensors so low chances of getting a damaged one.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

I was looking for a second ToneDexter for my wife/duo partner, and I saw someone on AGF offer one WITH an SM-81 for the price of a new ToneDexter.

Since the ToneDexter hasn't been around super long, I reasoned that it was extremely unlikely to have ANY wear and tear, so it was a no-brainer: a free quality lightly used microphone.

I had already made nice wavemaps using Line Audio CM3 (flat SDC) and iSK Starlight (pretty flat LDC) but the SM-81 just excelled for me with every guitar I tried.

If I were hunting for an SM-81 today, I would look for a used one. They are a lot more rugged than many condensors so low chances of getting a damaged one.

I believe @AeroUSA is selling a Tonedexter and an SM81

[Doug Young]

Nothing wrong with having an SM81 around, but my experience is different from what many seem to be reporting here. I don't notice that you *have* to have a "good" mic. I had perfectly reasonable results with an SM57. Different mics may produce different results, but so does different mic placement. Any mic will produce an improvement over the pickup, after that's it's just fine-tuning, just like the way we try different guitars, pickups, strings, etc, and discover that we like one on Monday and a different one on Tuesday. In addition to different mic placements (just as in recording), you can also experiment with pre-EQing the mic if you want to train ToneDexter to sound different.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Nothing wrong with having an SM81 around, but my experience is different from what many seem to be reporting here. I don't notice that you *have* to have a "good" mic.

This chimes with my experience but it must be acknowledged that all these discussions are limited by the lack of a recognised objective benchmark.

In my role as sound tech to the poor and unknown I've been experimenting with several guitar players, fiddlists, banjo manglers and mandolinists and they've generally been impressed by the results *compared to their usual experience* but, to be honest, I feel they were often enthralled by the process and I could have probably got them an equally pleasing (live gig) sound using conventional techniques.

My efforts with these folks are done on the fly with whatever decent dynamic/SDC is handy and they've all given good results.

When we approach the process with a predefined goal in mind things become a lot more complicated and I fear there are many rabbit holes in that forest.

[hiddenmickey]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Nothing wrong with having an SM81 around, but my experience is different from what many seem to be reporting here. I don't notice that you *have* to have a "good" mic. I had perfectly reasonable results with an SM57. Different mics may produce different results, but so does different mic placement. Any mic will produce an improvement over the pickup, after that's it's just fine-tuning, just like the way we try different guitars, pickups, strings, etc, and discover that we like one on Monday and a different one on Tuesday. In addition to different mic placements (just as in recording), you can also experiment with pre-EQing the mic if you want to train ToneDexter to sound different.

I hear ya, Doug! In fact, I was able to get a decent result with an e935 I had lying around. However, the Sterling ST31 just didn’t sound good, at least with my guitar. It was better than no mic image at all, but it still required aggressive EQ to make it usable.

[BluesKing777]

I am starting to think if you use or have used a certain mic in a live situation a lot, you would recognise the results in Tonedexter....

For example, I use to use a Shure SM57 live for my reso guitar. I tried the 57 with my metal Dobro with Fishman reso pickup and really like and feel familiar with the sound. The 'EQ' of a 57 is a fave of reso players. But the pickup, phew, stinks on its own in an amp, played once with it. Oh dear, ripping cardboard sounds. Just another one of the reasons I bought TD!

If I started again with TD files, I would make notes!!!!! Lots!!! I wrote a list page with the guitars that were on 1 -22, but a year later, don't know which mic is which except the Dobro file!



BluesKing777.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I want the SM81 to try with my Tonedexter but it's even more expensive than the TD. I am hopeful I will come across a used one soon. I have tried an MXL pencil style mic and an SM57 but both of them didn't really give me that great of a tone.

Here in Portland, OR they rent for $15/day, $30/week. I'm probably going to do that because I can't justify buying one, or even the Slate ML-2, which is less than half the price.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Another option is to rent one. I am also considering ordering one from amazon and seeing how much I even like it. I like how with amazon I at least have some wiggle return when it comes to returning items. Not my favorite thing to do but sometimes with expensive purchases, it's nice to at least see if I made the right choice.

Guitar Center has a 45-day return policy.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

If I started again with TD files, I would make notes!!!!! Lots!!! I wrote a list page with the guitars that were on 1 -22, but a year later, don't know which mic is which except the Dobro file!

We feel your pain.

My TD is mostly white these days with PVC tape covered in "temporary" reminders in barely legible Sharpie. Nicely designed scribble panel, btw.

The plan is to print some more permanent labels when the system stabilises but there's no sign of that yet.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Nothing wrong with having an SM81 around, but my experience is different from what many seem to be reporting here. I don't notice that you *have* to have a "good" mic. I had perfectly reasonable results with an SM57. Different mics may produce different results, but so does different mic placement. Any mic will produce an improvement over the pickup, after that's it's just fine-tuning, just like the way we try different guitars, pickups, strings, etc, and discover that we like one on Monday and a different one on Tuesday. In addition to different mic placements (just as in recording), you can also experiment with pre-EQing the mic if you want to train ToneDexter to sound different.

FWIW, I tried EQing an SM57 training mic. Having an EQ device between the mic and ToneDexter seemed to confuse TD and greatly extend the training time. Its possible that the old Ashley parametric EQ which I dug out of storage had dirty pots or some other problem which caused the slow down. Whatever the case, I'm now using a recommended training mic (Slate ML-2) to get better and much quicker results.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

FWIW, I tried EQing an SM57 training mic. Having an EQ device between the mic and ToneDexter seemed to confuse TD and greatly extend the training time. Its possible that the old Ashley parametric EQ which I dug out of storage had dirty pots or some other problem which caused the slow down. Whatever the case, I'm now using a recommended training mic (Slate ML-2) to get better and much quicker results.

I'm sure we've discussed this before in another thread but for the sake of completeness...

If you have the wherewithal you could record the mic and pickup, then play the pickup (dry) into the TD gtr input and the mic (EQ'd, otherwise twoke) into the TD mic input.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

We feel your pain.

My TD is mostly white these days with PVC tape covered in "temporary" reminders in barely legible Sharpie. Nicely designed scribble panel, btw.

The plan is to print some more permanent labels when the system stabilises but there's no sign of that yet.

I just keep track in a list app on my phone.