#31
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I thought I had addressed the question too but perhaps I did a poor job of explaining so I will try again...
When I install an adjustable truss rod, I like to use the Martin two way rods now, I just sit the rod in the channel. It doesn't get glued in. I do that jsut in case some day it breaks then all you have to do is remove the neck, easy to do on a bolt on neck, pull the truss rod out and slip a new one it. If you do the same thing with a CF bar then I think that allows for some slippage before the CF bar 'sets' in place and it jsut might be enough to make the relief off a bit. I have no idea if the guy who built your guitar did it that way. If I do use CF bars I epoxy them in which as far as I know is a common practice. Just offering up a hypothesis, aside from the neutral axis one, you should Google that too |
#32
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Those are good additions to the discussion, but don't answer the OP's question of what options he has to fix the one he already has.
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#33
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These guys you mention know how to make a non-adjustable reinforcing rod work ... but it is knowledge which is not possessed by the vast majority of builders, let alone everyday techs. btw I would add TJ Thompson and John Arnold to that list... |
#34
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Any play of the rod in the channel would delay the adjustment initiation by the rod. Neck curvature results from continuous pressure of the rod along the length of the neck. |
#35
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Cole Clark Fat Lady Gretsch Electromatic Martin CEO7 Maton Messiah Taylor 814CE Last edited by mirwa; 05-07-2019 at 06:29 PM. |
#36
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Bruce actually emailed me offline to help. The two questions were: 1) who has seen this much movement in a non-adjustable setup and 2) what have they done to fix it.
The solution as I gather is either to compression fret or to re-surface the fretboard and re-fret. John will have the guitar soon and will figure it out. I was just thing to educate myself in the meantime. Thanks for all the comments.
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Circa OM-30/34 (Adi/Mad) | 000-12 (Ger/Maple) | OM-28 (Adi/Brz) | OM-18/21 (Adi/Hog) | OM-42 (Adi/Braz) Fairbanks SJ (Adi/Hog) | Schoenberg/Klepper 000-12c (Adi/Hog) | LeGeyt CLM (Swiss/Amzn) | LeGeyt CLM (Carp/Koa) Brondel A-2 (Carp/Mad) |
#37
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There seems to be a misunderstanding here about the nature of a carbon beam in a structural situation. It is not absolutely rigid, but rather flexes a very predictable amount under a given stress. And as it flexes it increases its resistance to flexing further. Wood is similar in this way, but a carbon beam is stiffer than any wood I am aware of, and has another very important quality: it remembers its original form better than any wood. It does not take a set, but maintains its original baseline. The point is, once the wood itself has taken whatever set it will, the carbon retains its form for a very long time. Once the geometry of the neck, in our case, has been adjusted to be as close to ideal as possible under tension, it will tend to remain so as long as there are no changes in the equation.
The role of the wood is also important, as it ever was. Dry, stable, clear, grain aligned Honduran mahogany is what is what am. There are other possibilities, but nothing is actually better. This is for similar reasons to the carbon reinforcement: it is predictable and reliable. |
#38
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Have some fretless inlays and some paint to go, but finished this morning, twin carbon fibre rods, stronger than the wood itself Before the job, truss rod maxed out and stripped with 35 thou of measured relief, twin rods fitted, truss rod loose, 6 thou measured relief
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Cole Clark Fat Lady Gretsch Electromatic Martin CEO7 Maton Messiah Taylor 814CE |
#39
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I’d suggest that maybe the question should be - What are the options for adjusting relief in a neck without a truss rod - and the obvious answer is - Start by talking to the builder, if possible, since they’d be the most familiar with how the neck was assembled -
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More than a few Santa Cruz’s, a few Sexauers, a Patterson, a Larrivee, a Cumpiano, and a Klepper!! |
#40
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I guess my answers would be - yes, I would expect some early (first 6 months or so) movement in a neck, primarily because I see that in every guitar I build. So I think it's completely normal. Second, I think a reinforced neck can be quite stable over time - I have a 1957 Hofner that had a fingerboard plane and fret job 30 years ago, and it's only now starting to think about wanting a light fret dress over the fingerboard extension (archtop, floating extension). Third, the neck is made of wood. Wood, even with a stiffener, is not a particularly stable material in the greater scheme of things. Expecting a piece of wood 20" long to hold .005" is a pretty big ask, yet somehow it usually works out.
I would personally not assume that it's done moving, and would take small steps. If you want to get from .010" to a more reasonable .005", I would start with a simple fret dress. Take the high frets down a few thou, and get it happily playable, and play it for another 6 months. See what it does. Then decide if that is acceptable. Make another decision then, having not done anything that isn't reversible. Given the compressibility and movement inherent in wood, I'm not a fan of trying to force the wood into a place it really doesn't want to be with oversize frets. It will just move back over probably quite a small period of time. Just my opinion...
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Brian Evans Around 15 archtops, electrics, resonators, a lap steel, a uke, a mandolin, some I made, some I bought, some kinda showed up and wouldn't leave. Tatamagouche Nova Scotia. |
#41
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LOL!
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#42
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__________________
Circa OM-30/34 (Adi/Mad) | 000-12 (Ger/Maple) | OM-28 (Adi/Brz) | OM-18/21 (Adi/Hog) | OM-42 (Adi/Braz) Fairbanks SJ (Adi/Hog) | Schoenberg/Klepper 000-12c (Adi/Hog) | LeGeyt CLM (Swiss/Amzn) | LeGeyt CLM (Carp/Koa) Brondel A-2 (Carp/Mad) |
#43
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Just to come back to this thread. John ended up taking the frets down slightly on the first 2 frets. Those were the culprit for the weird relief. The neck has been dead stable since. I have four guitars with non-adjustable rods and they all seem to work fine.
__________________
Circa OM-30/34 (Adi/Mad) | 000-12 (Ger/Maple) | OM-28 (Adi/Brz) | OM-18/21 (Adi/Hog) | OM-42 (Adi/Braz) Fairbanks SJ (Adi/Hog) | Schoenberg/Klepper 000-12c (Adi/Hog) | LeGeyt CLM (Swiss/Amzn) | LeGeyt CLM (Carp/Koa) Brondel A-2 (Carp/Mad) |
#44
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Justonwo
How light are the instruments you prefer? What do they weigh? Is it overall weight you prefer or balance of neck/body? Thanks. Ed |
#45
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It’s both balance and overall weight. These instruments are typically in the 3 lb 10 oz to 14 oz range.
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Circa OM-30/34 (Adi/Mad) | 000-12 (Ger/Maple) | OM-28 (Adi/Brz) | OM-18/21 (Adi/Hog) | OM-42 (Adi/Braz) Fairbanks SJ (Adi/Hog) | Schoenberg/Klepper 000-12c (Adi/Hog) | LeGeyt CLM (Swiss/Amzn) | LeGeyt CLM (Carp/Koa) Brondel A-2 (Carp/Mad) |