Who Makes Martins Better than Martin?

[Jeff Scott]

Who Makes Martins Better than Martin?

Define Martin.

The way I see it, only Martin could make a better Martin.

[JohnW63]

What tickles me though is people claim a guitar is better simply because it is a boutique guitar. That is so far from the truth but if they believe that, then by all means, march on.

No. I believe you have misunderstood what they are saying. They are saying that the boutique guitar is better because they like the sound or build quality or constancy and/or ALL of those BETTER than the Martins they have tried. NOT because is is JUST a boutique guitar.

[zmf]

This thread feels a bit like the 11th round of a heavyweight bout. About time of the boxers to hit the canvas.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

No. I believe you have misunderstood what they are saying. They are saying that the boutique guitar is better because they like the sound or build quality or constancy and/or ALL of those BETTER than the Martins they have tried. NOT because is is JUST a boutique guitar.

I agree. When I see people discuss anything non-Martin on the UMF it feels like being around people who say Cadillacs are the ultimate in comfort and Corvettes are the last word in speed. Well, I'm not into spoiling anyone's fun but some people have an intentionally narrow view of the world. If they want to say that, fine, but I'm not sure they always even believe it. Sometimes, people say self-serving things in hopes that, if they repeat it enough, others will believe it.

That's no knock on Martins, just a commentary on hardcore brand loyalty and self-validation.

[rockabilly69]

By a lot of these posts it seems many people that choose boutique guitars probably feel that many of us Martin guys buy Martins because of name recognition only, as if by buying a Martin we assume they are good guitar, as though we are duped because of the brand name, Well that's not the case with me, I just love the sound of a good stock HD28. I own some really expensive guitars, but when I wanted the prototypical D28 style sound I heard it immediately when I picked my Martin HD28, and then two days later the store that I got mine from got another one in, and guess what it sounded almost identical to mine, so I advised a close friend to buy it. A few months later another one came into the store and it sounded almost identical to the first two. I don't know what Martin does to achieve the consistency that they do, but they are knocking out a bunch of good sounding D28s. I have never heard a Huss and Dalton or Collings guitar that I said I better sell my Martin and buy one of those. And it's surely not a matter of money, as I've spent much more cash on other guitars than any of these other boutique guitars cost. It's just when I heard my HD28 for the first time, it was exactly what I wanted to hear. And the HD28 is a standard production model guitar so if you want to compare who makes the best Martin guitar I guess you'd have to compare all the other boutique built guitars to the highest level of the Martin custom shop or at least comparable dollar for dollar guitars. But just this week I recorded a GREAT singer/guitarist and when he walked into the room I was setting templates on the computer for the tracks so I told him to just bust out his guitar and warm up a bit. I wasn't looking at him as I was concentrating on what I was doing, but soon as he played the first few chords on his guitar I knew it was a HD28, and of course that made me happy as I've recorded mine so much that I instantly dialed in a great sound for him.

Here's my HD28, I love it...

[Authentic]

Originally Posted by antsdmb

I, too, think it's an insult to Collings to say they are Taylor like in tone. I'm not even disrespecting Taylor. They've done amazing things for the community and I admire everything they've contributed. These companies and their product couldn't be any more different. I lean more towards Martin and Huss and Dalton but will always own a Collings because of their unique original take on what a classic guitar should sound like. I could easily have sold mine within the first year or two but the more I wait and play the more I'm rewarded. The quality is unsurpassed. My only gripe is that if your technique isn't good then you will be punished, which is often for me.

I would be interested to know why you consider it an insult? Would it be an insult to Huss & Dalton if they got compared to Martin in tone then? You can't say it's an insult to be compare to a certain company, and then say you're not being disrespectful to that certain company if you would consider it a compliment to be compared to another company. I for one thing Collings should be proud to be compared to Taylor, given Taylor's outstanding quality control with CNC (which Collings hired people from Taylor to go show them how to use), bolt on neck design (which Collings' own M&T bolt-on necks have been inspired by) and fish protein glue, which again, Collings only did after Taylor started doing it. It's great that Collings follows in Taylor's footsteps and Collings fans should be proud that their favorite brand is being compared to a giant like Taylor.

[hovishead]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

By a lot of these posts it seems many people that choose boutique guitars probably feel that many of us Martin guys buy Martins because of name recognition only, as if by buying a Martin we assume they are good guitar, as though we are duped because of the brand name, Well that's not the case with me, I just love the sound of a good stock HD28. I own some really expensive guitars, but when I wanted the prototypical D28 style sound I heard it immediately when I picked my Martin HD28, and then two days later the store that I got mine from got another one in, and guess what it sounded almost identical to mine, so I advised a close friend to buy it. A few months later another one came into the store and it sounded almost identical to the first two. I don't know what Martin does to achieve the consistency that they do, but they are knocking out a bunch of good sounding D28s. I have never heard a Huss and Dalton or Collings guitar that I said I better sell my Martin and buy one of those. And it's surely not a matter of money, as I've spent much more cash on other guitars than any of these other boutique guitars cost. It's just when I heard my HD28 for the first time, it was exactly what I wanted to hear. And the HD28 is a standard production model guitar so if you want to compare who makes the best Martin guitar I guess you'd have to compare all the other boutique built guitars to the highest level of the Martin custom shop or at least comparable dollar for dollar guitars. But just this week I recorded a GREAT singer/guitarist and when he walked into the room I was setting templates on the computer for the tracks so I told him to just bust out his guitar and warm up a bit. I wasn't looking at him as I was concentrating on what I was doing, but soon as he played the first few chords on his guitar I knew it was a HD28, and of course that made me happy as I've recorded mine so much that I instantly dialed in a great sound for him.

Here's my HD28, I love it...

Couldn't agree more. Much to many folks on this forum's disbelieve a heck of a lot of well known guitarists choose to play stock Martins rather than boutique instruments both live and in the studio. It's not about price or needing something disposable for the road. Some folks really do prefer the tone of a Martin. I like the sound of a good D-28 so much, I have two of them.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by Authentic

I would be interested to know why you consider it an insult? Would it be an insult to Huss & Dalton if they got compared to Martin in tone then? You can't say it's an insult to be compare to a certain company, and then say you're not being disrespectful to that certain company if you would consider it a compliment to be compared to another company. I for one thing Collings should be proud to be compared to Taylor, given Taylor's outstanding quality control with CNC (which Collings hired people from Taylor to go show them how to use), bolt on neck design (which Collings' own M&T bolt-on necks have been inspired by) and fish protein glue, which again, Collings only did after Taylor started doing it. It's great that Collings follows in Taylor's footsteps and Collings fans should be proud that their favorite brand is being compared to a giant like Taylor.

They're not talking about the machining process, they're referring to the musical instrument that is being produced. I wouldn't have commented but you started laying it on a bit thick there.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

A 'total' lack of help from H&D? I find that quite shocking. I've been close to them over a period of many years and have never heard of them treating a customer that way. I'm not doubting your story, but it does come as quite a shock to me.

Yes Toby, I found it shocking too. All they would do was "refer me to the dealer". The dealer was already frustrated with the guitar after many hours of work.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by AHill

I'm curious that Collings is on the list. A recent thread compared Collings to Santa Cruz and the general feeling was Collings had more of a modern, almost Taylor kind of sound to them. The consensus was they are superb guitars, but just different in sound than Martins.

This is a misapprehension because as already written, Martin dreads tend to bew bass biased.

Taylors (I think - and this is opinion, not scientific fact) sound treble biased, whereas Collings are evenly balanced across (and up and down) the strings.

Considering that Martins have been the standard for so long, it is understandable that many consider their sound the "standard".

Much more has been achieved in the last few decades.

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by Authentic

I for one thing Collings should be proud to be compared to Taylor, given Taylor's outstanding quality control with CNC (which Collings hired people from Taylor to go show them how to use), bolt on neck design (which Collings' own M&T bolt-on necks have been inspired by) and fish protein glue, which again, Collings only did after Taylor started doing it. It's great that Collings follows in Taylor's footsteps and Collings fans should be proud that their favorite brand is being compared to a giant like Taylor.

Bold statements. Wonder what Bill's response would be?

[antsdmb]

Originally Posted by Authentic

I would be interested to know why you consider it an insult? Would it be an insult to Huss & Dalton if they got compared to Martin in tone then? You can't say it's an insult to be compare to a certain company, and then say you're not being disrespectful to that certain company if you would consider it a compliment to be compared to another company. I for one thing Collings should be proud to be compared to Taylor, given Taylor's outstanding quality control with CNC (which Collings hired people from Taylor to go show them how to use), bolt on neck design (which Collings' own M&T bolt-on necks have been inspired by) and fish protein glue, which again, Collings only did after Taylor started doing it. It's great that Collings follows in Taylor's footsteps and Collings fans should be proud that their favorite brand is being compared to a giant like Taylor.

Not sure where to even start on this. The tone of a Taylor and Collings could not be anymore different. Taylor produces hundreds a day to a spec while Collings does a fraction of that by hand and braces their tops based on the piece of wood rather than a spec. That's just on the surface of this. So...yes...it's disrespectful to Bruce at Collings doing all things wood by hand while Taylor cranks out guitar by the hundreds daily to a spec. I'm in no way anti Taylor but what these companies provide to the guitar world are completely different. For the record I commend Taylor for their current direction and think Andy Powers has done wonders. Still not comparable companies in any aspect, though. And no..I'm not saying my Collings is better than your Taylor. It's just better in my head for my tastes and my preferences which is all that matters to me.

[Scotso]

Originally Posted by antsdmb

Not sure where to even start on this. The tone of a Taylor and Collings could not be anymore different. Taylor produces hundreds a day to a spec while Collings does a fraction of that by hand and braces their tops based on the piece of wood rather than a spec. That's just on the surface of this. So...yes...it's disrespectful to Bruce at Collings doing all things wood by hand while Taylor cranks out guitar by the hundreds daily to a spec

Guess you like Collings. So someone thinks Taylors and Collings sound alike. Oh well. Maybe the ones he compared did. Who knows? Why is this an issue?

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by Scotso

Guess you like Collings. So someone thinks Taylors and Collings sound alike. Oh well. Maybe the ones he compared did. Who knows? Why is this an issue?

Ah, well, Scotso, you might as well ask how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

Or, as you spend more time here, you'll soon discover how many solid opinions have been formed.

Everyone has opinions. About all kinds of subject matter. We'd be pretty dull otherwise.

Any discussion goes downhill when one person cannot allow others to have a different opinion without also adding a scornful comment about the other.

[Zissou Intern]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

Bold statements. Wonder what Bill's response would be?

Having dealt with Bill and Steve at Collings a handful of times, I suspect they'd just chuckle at the thought that they are following Taylor's lead.

Collings is actively pursuing excellence in every aspect of every instrument they build. If Bill consulted with Taylor guys for CNC set up, that is not out of norm his company's growth mindset. Bill sought out Mike Kemnitzer of Nugget Mandolins when Collings decided to start building mandolins. Mike helped Bill dial in their CNC machines. They also collaborated on the Tim O'Brien Model.

Collings is unique in its ability to turn out boutique level instruments (flat tops, arch tops, electrics, mandolins, and ukes) in a production factory, albeit a very small factory in comparison to Taylor or Martin. I just wonder when they will start building banjos.

Take a look at how their recent developments: the Traditional Series guitars and cases and the Waterloo brand guitars. Amazing. If Collings is following any company, it's Gibson from the Kalamazoo era. And even that's a stretch considering the Collings high level of fit finish and overall consistency.