Do people REALLY understand music?

[Silly Moustache]

Over the years, I developed a theory that most, whether they say they like/enjoy music or not, have little or no understanding. They will nod or dance to the beat … but so will a two year old toddler - instinctive? Rhythm is like a mother’s heart beat.
But do people have any understanding of chord progressions, song structures?

Back story: (TL - DR if you wish) ......

I’m 75. Since my earliest years, I was obsessed by/with rhythm. As an under ten, I had no drums, but I played drums …with my teeth - allocating different teeth to snare tom, tom tom and bass drums and cymbals: hi-hat, ride and crash.

In my secondary school, maybe age 12/13, I saw a drum kit and asked if I could play. The drummer asked if I could play - I said I don’t know, I think so. He shrugged and walked away. I played a perfectly good 4/4 rhythm with 4 in the hi hat 1 and 3 on the bass pedal, and 2 & 4 on the snare. The drummer returned and said - “oh you CAN play! How long have you been playing? It was the first time I EVER sat at a drum kit.

Later I got some mentorship by Charlie Watts after I set up his kit at a club where the Stones played a residency.

Playing drums (to me) was just doing long division ... with feeling: 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 etc. 3/4 and 6/8 were not a problem.

I quit playing drums in 1970 when they wanted to mic up my kit and the black noise boxes either side of me went from 15 watts, to 500 watts.

I took up acoustic guitar in the late '60s. i got some hints from the guys in the band but they were electric guitarists (bad move - different instrument!)

Agonisingly slowly, I learnt about chords and riffs, and singing to my own guitar. By 1973 I was playing in bluegrass bands where you only really needed 3 chords ... and a capo!
Then I had to learn mandolin and Dobro.

I learnt a bit more about scales (pentatonic first then standard major chords to harmonising the scales, etc..

I “designed” music in my mind's eye, and when I solo, I tend to close my eyes and “see the notes” but I am totally unable to explain what/how I see it … but I do.

Never learnt notation - tadpoles on telegraph wires didn’t look like the music in my head.
Later I went to a bluegrass camp with some famous American bluegrass musicians, but they just played a bit then handed out tablature: numbers on lines - so that was no good.

Notation and tablature are like those old computer punch cards : Instructions rather than … music.

And now, since 2020, I teach guitar and singing, often to folks who want to play like me on my YouTube channel. I teach theory as and when it arises, but mostly I teach people rather than theory.

So, ramble over, what do you think about my first paragraph?

[Mr. Jelly]

Interesting question. My turn to ramble . I'd say yes and no. My impression is that peoples understanding, whatever that is, is all over the place. Music impacts people in numerous ways and their response is varied also. Incorporate what talent and skills they have combined with what drives them and it gets way to complicated. It all comes out when they play music if they play an instrument. I often ask musicians why they play what they do and how they approach their instrument. Interestingly some of the most talented seem to perform music more easily than others but don't understand it's nuts and bolts as well. People have their own understanding of music. Most people cannot explain how they approach playing their instrument. So how can they explain what their understanding is?

[mr. beaumont]

Theory just explains. It comes AFTER the music. It doesn't tell you what to do.

Notation is just a system of communication. There's others, but it's an awfully good one. It allows me to communicate with other instruments, other people, from all over the world.

As far as understanding goes, music is always an interesting one, because it's both an ART and a SCIENCE.

So I understand that if I play a m/maj9 chord, many people will hear it as "mysterious." But there's no explanation as to WHY.

[Nymuso]

I don't have to know how candy bars are made. I just know which ones I like and which ones I don't. But the intricacies of production of candy bars is a big deal to the guys at Mars or Hersheys.

We are producers of music. The nuts and bolts of its production are big deal to us because, well, that's what we do. But the consumers of music see it differently. Maybe a song reminds them of their first love, or it’s something they can dance to or it stirs the proper emotion for a movie scene. They don't have to be musicologists any more than we have to be confectioners. We and they like what we like, and that's the beginning and the end of it.

[Aspiring]

To add to Nymuso post, everything in life is like this. There are those that specialize in something and those that consume it.

Modern society is the relentless pursuit of making things ever easier to consume so that specialization isn't needed.

On top of that the art of performing includes making the music look effortless which often translates to those not in the know as meaning it should be achievable easily.

Also people have very different learning preferences. The larger percentage of the population learns by being shown how to do something and then repeating that. A small percentage of the population works better by understanding why you do something.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

do people have any understanding of chord progressions, song structures?

[/B]

No. They absolutely do not.

That's what critics are for, to tell them about that kind of stuff.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Theory just explains. It comes AFTER the music. It doesn't tell you what to do.

Notation is just a system of communication. There's others, but it's an awfully good one. It allows me to communicate with other instruments, other people, from all over the world.

As far as understanding goes, music is always an interesting one, because it's both an ART and a SCIENCE.

So I understand that if I play a m/maj9 chord, many people will hear it as "mysterious." But there's no explanation as to WHY.

Great post.

Few understand it like my gigging dad who had perfect pitch or recently deceased WWII vet cousin I might have posted about who was a Julliard grad, played in two of the world's best symphonies, and gigged and did folk music into his mid-90s.

I'm a chronically mediocre hack against them but given enough time can understand it.

Our geriatric mostly deaf dog seeks out when my son and his friends jam. It might really be the music because she'll make efforts to be closer to it even if she's not present getting attention.

I've witnessed music calm and please people who have dementia and in hospice and felt there was some sort of understanding going on. When my pals and I pedal our bikes to a brewery with good and varied music I'm sure many who get up, dance and respond are not musicians and have some sort of understanding.

So there's some time, disk space and bandwidth wasted without any scientific conclusions or real expertise.

[doctone]

When I was at high school in the early 80s, here in Germany about 50% of working class kids went to the public music school, where an accompanying theory course was mandatory when learning an instrument.
Technique and understanding has gone downhill since then for the masses, in favor of instant satisfaction.

[joe white]

And I thought I was the only one that played teeth drums.....

[FrankHudson]

Music is music. Yes, mysterious (innate?) talent like your drums story certainly helps in making it. I assume others might learn the same thing from drum notation or from understanding musical theory rather than have the "feel." Classical Indian percussion (complicated!) is taught orally by singing.

I have a number of mental oddities that impact how I work with music as a limited player and composer. I apparently have very little ability to hear and copy back literally. This is basic to how many folks learn music, and it doesn't work for me. It's awkward and baffling to me.

Therefore, I will work with music more abstractly than many musicians. I can generate musical motifs or chord progressions quickly. I have some elements of theory or practices of my own that let me generate stuff (compose, improvise) at a better than average level. When I'm listening to a piece I don't know, I can quite often know where the melody line is going from some inner place that is understanding its logic in real-time.

I can painstakingly read or write music on a basic level, and interestingly from your story, understanding the rhythmic notation elements is the part I can not grasp.

So yeah, this stuff is weird. Your drumming story is uncanny. We learn and play in different ways.

[Harlowv]

This discussion seems technical to me. In a physical sense, music is governed by mathematics and physics. A physical error can ruin a musical piece. A physical miracle can elevate music to a heaven like place. But what about feeling? Emotion? Like many others (I hope), I have experienced “music” transcend its technical element and move me like almost nothing else. Do you think that is part of understanding music?

[mike o]

The general public will know the difference between good and bad music. I wouldn’t expect anyone other than an advanced musician to have a deep understanding of music. Interesting. My wife and I were attending an Australian Pink Floyd concert a few weeks ago. A real nice lady in her mid 30’s was sitting by herself in front us throughly enjoying the show. At intermission, we had a conversation that lead to my learning she played guitar. When I asked if she performed, I got the most awesome answer. She replied, “I enjoy music so much, I just wanted to learn what music is so I can understand what I’m hearing”. She traveled 3 hours to see the show and she was of East Indian descent. Amazing. So Silly M, there’s your one person !

[AX17609]

If you listened to the current Spotify Top 10 list, you would no longer believe that the general public knows the difference between good and bad music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVcnsQS-eqQ

[Fishermike]

I reject the premise. It's like asking if people understand art in general. The question misses the point.

Music, like all art, is a fundamentally personal experience. It is personal to those who make it, and to those who experience it.

The entire concept of whether an audience "understands" what they are experiencing strikes me as judgmental, patronizing, and elitist. They get out of it what they get out of it, and whether they "understand" it to somebody else's satisfaction is irrelevant. Should a prospective listener have to show a credential that proves they're sufficiently "in the know" to properly appreciate what they're about to hear?

[raysachs]

Doesn’t matter if people listening to music understand anything about it at all. The point of music (and other forms of art) is to communicate feelings and emotions and thoughts in a way that language, on its own, generally cannot. Those who create music need to know enough about music to be able to create music that moves those who listen to it. This can range from really sophisticated music that requires a great deal of knowledge to very rudimentary music that requires relatively little understanding but likely a great deal of feel and instinct. But the listener has absolutely zero obligation to know anything about it other that what it communicates to them, how it makes them feel, etc. Some listeners will take a real interest in it and may eventually cross that boundary from merely experiencing music to actually creating it - that’s how I got started playing music, I’m sure I’m not unique around here in that evolution. At that point you need to learn enough about music to be able to create it. But those who just listen to it don’t need to know anything other that how it makes them feel, what it makes them think, how much they enjoy it, etc.

-Ray