Expensive dental crowns color match is way off

[srick]

Originally Posted by Rolph

I don't know what you should do. As a physician, I would speak frankly to the dentist, no one else.
Unfortunately, I think the level of proficiency and ethics in Dentistry is appalling.

And I would challenge you on that Rolph. It’s easy to cherry pick. Just look at the quackery throughout the medical field.

I went to UConn where the medical and dental classes were combined for the first two years. I was required to pass part I of the medical boards. A fair number of my classmates switched into medicine at that point. Over the years, our friendships have transcended our professions,

On graduation day, after four long years, a group of us were sitting in our apartment. On a whim, I pulled out the combined class list and asked, “Okay, who would you go to?”

The results:

• 50% of the class we would have trusted with our lives. Anywhere, any time.
• 35-40% would not be our first choice, but would hopefully be good enough.
• The remaining 10-15% were incompetent or dishonest. And you know, we had seen them in action, and could back up the claims with evidence.

Since that day 43 years ago, I have observed that those numbers run true for every field and every person. Whether a person is a custodian or a general, a doctor or a mechanic, a priest or a salesman, there is a group of bad eggs in every field. And always remember that there are a heckuva a lot of good people out there too.

Rick

[Gasworker]

$5000+ is a lot money to a lot of us. It’s an interesting issue. It may be worth a legal opinion. If your lawyer says anything that resembles “I think you may have a case I would figure out how to live with it. Using social media to defame the dentist could get expensive. If you’re going to spend the money on a legal opinion ask the lawyer about potential liability issues as well.

[Talk2Me]

Originally Posted by Gasworker

$5000+ is a lot money to a lot of us. It’s an interesting issue. It may be worth a legal opinion. If your lawyer says anything that resembles “I think you may have a case I would figure out how to live with it. Using social media to defame the dentist could get expensive. If you’re going to spend the money on a legal opinion ask the lawyer about potential liability issues as well.

Why pay a lawyer hundreds or even thousands to pursue this? Fairly cut and dried it would seem. Try to see if in fact color matching is standard practice in the industry. If it is then your case is open and shut and might even be pursuable via small claims court with no lawyers at all.

"Defamation" requires statements to be untrue. I can't see anything here the OP said that wasn't true (of course we're only getting his side of the story but still).

All this assuming the OP even wants to go the courtroom route which, at this point, seems to be quite the jump.

[Gunny]

I lost 5 teeth is a horrific accident while in the Corps. The work did by the military dentist lasted an amazing 34 years. Just a few months a go 2 bridges finally had to be replaced. One was perfect, the other also a really bad color match. The lab was great in rushing me a new, correctly colored bridge at zero cost. I cannot see how there is any other outcome as the mistake was made by the techs.

[Rolph]

Originally Posted by srick

And I would challenge you on that Rolph. It’s easy to cherry pick. Just look at the quackery throughout the medical field.

I went to UConn where the medical and dental classes were combined for the first two years. I was required to pass part I of the medical boards. A fair number of my classmates switched into medicine at that point. Over the years, our friendships have transcended our professions,

On graduation day, after four long years, a group of us were sitting in our apartment. On a whim, I pulled out the combined class list and asked, “Okay, who would you go to?”

The results:

• 50% of the class we would have trusted with our lives. Anywhere, any time.
• 35-40% would not be our first choice, but would hopefully be good enough.
• The remaining 10-15% were incompetent or dishonest. And you know, we had seen them in action, and could back up the claims with evidence.

Since that day 43 years ago, I have observed that those numbers run true for every field and every person. Whether a person is a custodian or a general, a doctor or a mechanic, a priest or a salesman, there is a group of bad eggs in every field. And always remember that there are a heckuva a lot of good people out there too.

Rick

I agree with you. I've been in med since the 1970's, UCLA med school. I did not mean to disparage dentistry or dentists. For the last 20 years I've had a very hard time finding a good one. Services for my children have been adequate. I believe there was a turning point in 2008 for most professionals, and their handlers: desperation. Then there is managed care and the nonsensical complicated systems of insurance denial we employ. I can't find someone to fix my 3 y/o Triumph motorcycle. I've had 3 s/s amps go silent in the last 12 mos., and the mfg's: Carvin, Fender, Arcus all told me to pound sand. So did Gibson when a new (expensive) guitar bled out for no reason, 60 days after I bought it. I worked in a busy ER for 8 yrs. before private practice. Most ER doctors are Saints.

[Rolph]

Originally Posted by Talk2Me

Why pay a lawyer hundreds or even thousands to pursue this? Fairly cut and dried it would seem. Try to see if in fact color matching is standard practice in the industry. If it is then your case is open and shut and might even be pursuable via small claims court with no lawyers at all.

"Defamation" requires statements to be untrue. I can't see anything here the OP said that wasn't true (of course we're only getting his side of the story but still).

All this assuming the OP even wants to go the courtroom route which, at this point, seems to be quite the jump.

In California, there are no legal remedies to get paid if you win in small claims court.

[Talk2Me]

Originally Posted by Rolph

In California, there are no legal remedies to get paid if you win in small claims court.

I don't know why you would say that. A legal Court Judgment and Order from a(ny) Judge is absolutely collectable:

https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/small.../collect-money

and

https://www.courts.ca.gov/11188.htm

[Gasworker]

Originally Posted by Talk2Me

Why pay a lawyer hundreds or even thousands to pursue this? Fairly cut and dried it would seem. Try to see if in fact color matching is standard practice in the industry. If it is then your case is open and shut and might even be pursuable via small claims court with no lawyers at all.

"Defamation" requires statements to be untrue. I can't see anything here the OP said that wasn't true (of course we're only getting his side of the story but still).

All this assuming the OP even wants to go the courtroom route which, at this point, seems to be quite the jump.

I did say “legal opinion” with the intent of avoiding hundreds or even thousands in legal fees😂 It’s far from a clear cut case because we have one side of the story. Last, embarking on Social Media revenge is far from simple when it hits the courts and proving your right can get expensive.

[srick]

And I'll make this point again: jumping into the legal realm still doesn't solve the problem. The bridge will likely have to be re-made and Bill will have to find another dentist, establish a relationship, and start from square 0. I guarantee that going this route will be a far, far bigger headache than working with the present doctor.

Bill likes and trusts this dentist, but is dissatisfied with the outcome. A bridge that is not esthetically pleasing does not rise to the level of malpractice. The first step is to talk to the doctor and ask him to correct the color.

Rick

[TheGITM]

I had veneers put in many years ago and was told at the time that there is no guarantee on color matching (with veneers, at least). The recommendation was to have all of the 'visible' teeth done, which for me was 6 teeth on the top and 8 teeth on the bottom.

I got nice new white teeth! I'm pretty sure that is what the Hollywood types do, as well.

If I opened my mouth wide enough and someone cared to peek in they'd see all of the remaining teeth are aged yellow, but for normal interaction no one sees the others... they just see the perfectly aligned, beautiful white porcelain veneers!

That is your other option. Have the remaining visible teeth done to match the new crowns.

[srick]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

That is your other option. Have the remaining visible teeth done to match the new crowns.

Very good point. One problem that dentists frequently encounter is that they don’t recommend enough treatment to fully correct all of the problems. In trying to save the patient money by doing ‘just enough’ to correct the immediate problem , they end up creating more issues further down the line. The patient is upset when later they find out that there is more that needs to be done, and the dentist kicks himself for trying to save the patient money.

It truly is one of the toughest professions out there. And the biggest challenge for most dentists is communicating the highly technical and detailed treatment in a way that regular folks can understand. Even then, ‘stuff happens’ during treatment that is entirely unexpected. After all, you’re working with natural materials and attempting to do better than the original equipment- good luck with that.

In retirement, I have been repairing guitars, and now, am in the middle of my first build. The challenges and detail required are remarkably similar to dentistry. But dentistry paid the rent a lot more easily than luthiery!

[Talk2Me]

Originally Posted by Gasworker

I did say “legal opinion” with the intent of avoiding hundreds or even thousands in legal fees😂 It’s far from a clear cut case because we have one side of the story. Last, embarking on Social Media revenge is far from simple when it hits the courts and proving your right can get expensive.

A "legal opinion" would mean a consultation at the very least. While some attorneys would do that for free the best will charge for their time and knowledge. Thus hundreds at the least.

I've already stated that this is only one side but there's zero there to suggest anything but dentist liability (again, this is the OP's case IF he decides to pursue it and he'll be telling his side to whomever decides this ...IF he goes the legal route). The main point was small claims would save a lot of expense IF he decides to do this (and I wasn't suggesting he should, just small claims to avoid large legal fees).

As far as the defamation issue, "social media revenge" isn't what we're seeing here. Just a consumer requesting info and stating the facts as to what happened. No defamation as far as we can see unless the OP is off doing it elsewhere.

[LiveMusic]

I don't want to take a legal route. I think this sucks and I think he and the nurse did not do this 'right.' Or, as I said, the nurse turned in the wrong color or the lab used the wrong color. To me, this is an obvious mismatch. But I have never sued anyone and don't want to start.

Is it is possible that halfway close is the norm? I don't know but I know that I see a whole lotta mismatched colors in people's mouths! What aggravates me the most is why are we in this spot at all? Seems to me, they could have done a better job of matching these teeth. Are they conscientious? Seem to be very much so. Skilled dentist, seems to me. But the color sucks.

Veneers or bleaching is matching the remaining teeth to the crowns. As I said, I do not know if bleaching can EVER match these colors and I have my doubts. If it were to work, that would be great. And I do not know if this dentist has much experience at bleaching or anything cosmetic. His practice is in a nearby blue collar town.

As for veneers, I just googled it and it said $800 to $1800 per tooth. That is as much as a crown.

For many years, I have considered going to Mexico for dental work. I actually communicated with one but I didn't pull the trigger as I got scared to travel there at that time; it was down near Cozumel. A recording engineer friend of mine went down for 2 weeks and it was like a dental work vacation. Did great.

If I were to say to the dentist that I want him to cut these off and put new ones on at his cost, he might balk. What if he says YOU pay for the new bridge? Does anyone know... say a 4-tooth crown/bridge cost $5,300. How much does the porcelain bridge cost the dentist? (I wrote porcelain but don't know what it is made of, I assume it's that or equivalent.)

If he refuses to fix it at no cost to me, would I pay for the bridge? Maybe, if he provides labor, depending on the bridge cost. And if I was convinced we could do a proper match.

Again, it just angers me that they put me in this position!

Also, can anyone else chime in and say whether the dentist telling the nurse that the crowns will stain some with time is legit?

[srick]

Hi Bill -

We've got to get you past this "guard nurse" to see the doctor and speak with him. To do this, you may have to become what we up North call, "a nudge." You don't have to be a pain in the rear, but you need to be persistent. I would advise calling in advance and setting up an appointment to speak with the doctor stating, "I want to speak with him about my crowns. I am not happy with them." IOW, don't just show up.

As I mentioned before, let him do the talking. There should be no charge for a re-do, and no talk about further treatment. You have every right to be angry here. Sometimes in a case like this (and remember, I don't have all of the details, pre and post op photos, etc.) a doctor will give out a bleaching kit to brighten up the natural teeth in order to match them better. I would hope there would be no charge for this. If this can work, it's a much better alternative than cutting off and re-making the crowns. (Again without full records, I cannot evaluate.)

Do you have anyone close to you (spouse or partner, or best friend) who can give you their honest opinion? The best way to judge is to look at the teeth outdoors in north facing light on a sunny morning. Fluorescent and incandescent lights can often throw off the color (and guess what lighting many of us have in our bathrooms?) BTW, women have a more acute sense of color than men, so consider asking a woman. Also, have someone evaluate your appearance at conversational distance. Looking in that little hand mirror is deadly - the only one who should be looking at you that closely is your dentist or your true love.

To answer your last question: Yes! Crowns or a bridge accumulating stain over several weeks to a month will actually look more natural. I have seen several times where new dental work is so perfect that it doesn't look right - it looks too good to be true. Over the course of several weeks, the gums acclimate to the crowns and stain builds up on the in between areas and makes a bridge look more natural.

Lastly - don't go to Mexico. if anything goes wrong, you have NO recourse. If the doctor is using defective materials, improperly sterilizing, etc., you have NO recourse. And if anything needs to be re-done in the States, most dentists will groan and likely charge extra because they have no idea what they will find under the crowns.

Again, good luck. Make that appointment. Have a trusted friend give you their honest opinion. Let us know how things work out.

Rick

[The Watchman]

I'm in that same age range. I asked my dentist about whitening (I had the old UV version done 12+ years ago). She recommended using the over the counter whitening gel, with the plastic molding forms I had made back then. It worked fine. I have two crowns as well but cant see them well enough to know what color they are. The 8 metal fillings I have are probably what you'd notice first.

I would never choose to do a redo of a crown. There'd be so little stump left, I'd hate to have too little to make a good attachment of a new crown.