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  #16  
Old 07-28-2023, 02:09 PM
TaoMaas TaoMaas is offline
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I'm no expert, but I always thought that part of the move to mirrorless cameras was so they could cut down on moveable parts in the camera, which should also cut down on manufacturing costs, I would think. I use mirrorless cameras at work and I own a few of my own, but I also have DSLRs, which are my main personal cameras. Electronic viewfinders don't bother me, but I know they bug the heck out of some people so that's a consideration. Also, it's a small thing, but with a DSLR, you don't have to turn the camera on to be able to look through it and frame a shot. I tend to do a lot of looking before settling on a composition so DSLRs work better for me. Your mileage may vary. For what it's worth, Pentax has made a decision not to go too far down the mirrorless path. They are designing a new film camera and have talked about how they think that there are certain things that add to the enjoyment of the experience, like manually advancing the film. With that view, I could see how they might think that feeling the slap of a mirror flipping out of the way might be considered part of the experience, too.
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  #17  
Old 07-29-2023, 11:19 AM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photojeep View Post
As to the issue of compatibility with currently owned glass, that didn't bother me as Nikon has an adapter that would allow me to use all of my lenses seamlessly.
From reviews I have read, there are some functionality issues regarding non-Nikkor Z lenses with the Mount Adapter FTZ.
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Originally Posted by TaoMaas View Post
Also, it's a small thing, but with a DSLR, you don't have to turn the camera on to be able to look through it and frame a shot. I tend to do a lot of looking before settling on a composition so DSLRs work better for me.
This is no small thing for me.
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  #18  
Old 08-03-2023, 12:06 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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After 22 years of (Canon) DSLR, my wife and I converted to mirrorless in January 2023.

I had a mirrorless Panasonic GH2 that was a great video camera, but mediocre stills. The EVF was pretty bad a decade ago.

We traded in 70D crop-frame for the R7 crop frame. With a simple mechanical adapter, we can use all our EF mount lenses.

The largest part of our photography involves birds, especially birds in flight. The move to mirrorless has helped me produce the best bird photos in my life.
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  #19  
Old 08-03-2023, 12:14 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Scott View Post
Lucky for me that (when/if the day comes I buy a MLc) Canon makes a few excellent converters that will allow me to use my EF lenses on an R series body with full functionality and them some, actually.
The 'converters' are actually mechanical adapters. The image does not go through any manipulation whatsoever.
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  #20  
Old 08-03-2023, 05:32 PM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Currie View Post
The 'converters' are actually mechanical adapters. The image does not go through any manipulation whatsoever.
It's a mechanical linkage issue, nothing to do with optics.
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  #21  
Old 08-03-2023, 05:36 PM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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Originally Posted by Gordon Currie View Post
The 'converters' are actually mechanical adapters. The image does not go through any manipulation whatsoever.
Besides, I was referring to the FTZ adapter for Z series Nikon cameras. I know the Canon adapters have no issues, and those are what I would eventually go with if I buy a EOS R series body. I just bought a EF 24mm IS USM lens so...
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  #22  
Old 08-03-2023, 07:05 PM
p^h p^h is offline
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I'm comfortable with DSLRs, they work well enough for my purposes. Besides, I'm too invested in glass (Pentax) to change now. I do own a mirrorless compact (Fuji), does that count?

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  #23  
Old 08-23-2023, 08:38 AM
mdvaden mdvaden is offline
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Somebody said that DSLR lenses limit pros from going mirrorless. Not true, at least with Canon. A $99 adapter lets DLSR lenses work near flawless. In fact, it makes some older lenses work far better on mirrorless.

To avoid too much complex talk, the benefits I enjoy are seeing in the viewfinder an exposure brightness that's closer to final product. Micro-adjustment per each lens isn't necessary. Bodies are a bit smaller and lighter.

That said, an older Canon 5DSR DSLR omits a certain low pass filter and can be bought for about $1000. The mirrorless counterpart the Canon R5 includes the filter. Because of this, the 5DSR can take better and more detailed images in many scenes.

So I have a 5DSR DSLR and an EOS R and R6 mirrorless. Half my lenses are mirrorless mount and half are DSLR. I use the DSLR mainly for coast redwood forests but as a spare for weddings.

But for the average person starting from scratch or advancing from a cheap point and shoot, I'd recommend going the mirrorless route. Canon, Sony or Nikon.

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  #24  
Old 08-24-2023, 06:23 PM
Carmel Cedar Carmel Cedar is offline
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Default The lens side of mirrorless...

One element to consider: mirrorless can enable much more capable lenses than DLSR, at least for the Nikon platform. The "Z" mount lenses for Nikon mirrorless are in almost every case as good or substantially better than equivalent "F" mount DLSR counterparts, and some are dramatically better. Nikon's mirrorless lenses are currently the best they have ever made, in sharpness, acuity, etc. Not accounting for the pro's and con's of mirrorless vs DLSR on the camera side, for lenses - Nikon has created a compelling case to switch.

With Nikon's adapter ("FTZ"), F-mount Nikon lenses work well (in some cases a bit better) on the latest flagship mirrorless cameras, so photographers are not forced to abandon their F-mount lenses when switching to a mirrorless camera. However, the performance of the new mirrorless glass is compelling.

Not sure if a lens benefit also exists for Sony or Canon mirrorless systems, but wanted to mention the added benefit on the Nikon side for mirrorless.
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  #25  
Old 08-24-2023, 06:52 PM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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Default New or used?

If you're shopping for a new camera, mirrorless is almost the only game in town. I do love my Pentax DSLRs, still available new, but they're not cheap. If cost is a factor, there's never been a better time to buy used DSLR gear. My local camera shop is jammed tight with used Nikon and Canon gear, traded for mirrorless replacements. There's nothing obsolete about it, but consumer tastes have changed.

I'd choose mirrorless for low-light work and action sports. Slower, more deliberate tasks such and landscape and travel or portraiture can be done as well or better with DSLRs.
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  #26  
Old 08-24-2023, 07:43 PM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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Default Advice from Thom Hogan

He's been using and blogging about pro cameras for decades, with a focus on Nikon. He's not a traditionalist, and he has a stake in reviewing new mirrorless gear. In a recent column entitled "What's a DSLR user to do?" he made tehse points:

"My advice if youíre using a state-of-the-art DSLR still being sold (Canon 90D, 6D Mark II, 5D Mark IV, 1Dx Mark III, or Nikon D7500, D780, D850, D6) is to just stay put. You have a highly capable camera, and the cost of moving to mirrorless is going to be painful. Indeed, so much so that my top piece of advice if you have one of these bodies is to take a long, careful look at the used DSLR lens pool and bargain hard. You can find lots of low mileage, excellent shape, EF-mount and particularly Nikon F-mount lenses available, and at astonishingly low prices. Thatís because of the large number of DSLR owners who decided to take a lot of pain in moving to mirrorless. Your DSLR image sensors are fine and basically state-of-the-art for still photography, so the way you can continue to improve your image quality is mostly through lenses (and user experience/training)."

"Itís typically the DSLR user thatís got an older (e.g. 7D or D300) or lower end (e.g. Rebel T1i or D3100) body that is scratching their head about what to do...My advice for these folk is trickier. You have two choices, basically: (1) push higher in the current DSLR lineup for your sensor size (e.g. a D3100 user buying a D7500, or a D600 user buying D850); or (2) move to mirrorless (e.g. Rebel T1i or original 5D model user moving to an R model).

#1 lets you just keep your current lens set (and maybe enhance it a bit, as I noted above) but get the benefits of a decade of product iteration.

#2 has you wanting the best-possible-current-camera at your level. Yes, mirrorless is now arguably driving the best-camera debate. ...So if youíre coming out of a camera buying coma to buy a state-of-the-art body that forces you to have to also replace your current lens set, why wouldnít you do that in mirrorless?"

For the whole article: https://dslrbodies.com/newsviews-2/w...ser-to-do.html
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  #27  
Old 08-24-2023, 08:08 PM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmel Cedar View Post
Not sure if a lens benefit also exists for Sony or Canon mirrorless systems, but wanted to mention the added benefit on the Nikon side for mirrorless.
The freedom to get smaller and innovate is inherent to the mirrorless design, and is a big part of why manufacturers have been making the move to mirrorless. From B&H:

Quote:
For decades, lens manufacturers were stymied by the limitations of SLR cameras when it came to holding the line on size and weight. By nature, the presence of a mirror housing dictated the limitations to how close lens designers were able to position the rear element of the lens to the film or sensor surface. The shorter flange distance inherent to mirrorless camera bodies has loosened these boundaries, resulting in a flood of new lenses that are smaller, lighter and, in many instances, higher performing than their DSLR counterparts.

Combining the advantages of the inherently shorter flange distances with wider-circumference lens mounts has resulted in mirrorless lens designs that are not only smaller and lighter, but evenly sharper across the viewing field than comparable DSLR lenses.
Full article here. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora...ithout-mirrors

I have a couple brand new zooms for my Sony a9ii, the 24-70 GMII and the 70-200 GMII. They're incredible, easily the best lenses I've ever used. Both a half pound lighter than the previous iteration, and even lighter compared to respective zooms for Canon and Nikon DSLR's, with better optics.

How much that matters? Not that much. But if you're going for a new system, mirrorless is the way to go. Buy a camera system for the lens ecosystem, not the bodies. I mean, unless this is your last camera system and you want to save a bunch. But if you're going to be in it for the next 20+ years (hopefully), don't think there's really any other answer.

Last edited by Dirk Hofman; 08-24-2023 at 08:13 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-24-2023, 09:17 PM
mdvaden mdvaden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
He's been using and blogging about pro cameras for decades, with a focus on Nikon. He's not a traditionalist, and he has a stake in reviewing new mirrorless gear. In a recent column entitled "What's a DSLR user to do?" he made tehse points:

"My advice if youíre using a state-of-the-art DSLR still being sold (Canon 90D, 6D Mark II, 5D Mark IV, 1Dx Mark III, or Nikon D7500, D780, D850, D6) is to just stay put. You have a highly capable camera, and the cost of moving to mirrorless is going to be painful.
Not necessarily if someone learns where to buy. Suppose I had a Canon 5D mkiv, and sold it for an EOS R which has almost the same sensor but mirrorless, plus a $99 adapter. I'd have money to spare in my pocket, be able to keep the same lenses, and get a higher keeper rate using certain lenses.

Not saying that's true for every kit, but the "going to be painful" isn't a dependable prediction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmel Cedar View Post
One element to consider: mirrorless can enable much more capable lenses than DLSR, at least for the Nikon platform.
That is true for quite a few lenses.

With Canon, I'd say that adding Tamron in EF mount to my DSLR closes the gap between my mirrorless and RF lenses. The expensive f/1.2 RF primes seem incredibly better. I find the EF 70-200mm f/ 2.8 for example very comparable. Also, I don't know if Canon's new RF 135mm is really that much better than the Sigma 135mm for Canon's DSLR EF mount. I'd rather have the latest Canon RF 135mm but could buy two Sigma 135mm lenses for the same price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Paul View Post
Plus, lots of fun features on the mirrorless ... Focus stacking, time lapse.

DSLRs are on the way out, and it's happening quickly.
That last part can be good news for some other photographers. Photographers moving to mirrorless leave behind a steady supply of affordable deals on DSLRs that become upgrades for some people, and backups for others.

As noted earlier, my 5DSR can take equal or better photos in the redwoods than an R5, so I kept that one. At weddings I use two mirrorless, but keep a 3rd lens on the 5DSR for group portraits or even candids.


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Last edited by mdvaden; 08-24-2023 at 09:37 PM.
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  #29  
Old 08-25-2023, 05:26 PM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmel Cedar View Post
One element to consider: mirrorless can enable much more capable lenses than DLSR, at least for the Nikon platform. The "Z" mount lenses for Nikon mirrorless are in almost every case as good or substantially better than equivalent "F" mount DLSR counterparts, and some are dramatically better. Nikon's mirrorless lenses are currently the best they have ever made, in sharpness, acuity, etc. Not accounting for the pro's and con's of mirrorless vs DLSR on the camera side, for lenses - Nikon has created a compelling case to switch.

With Nikon's adapter ("FTZ"), F-mount Nikon lenses work well (in some cases a bit better) on the latest flagship mirrorless cameras, so photographers are not forced to abandon their F-mount lenses when switching to a mirrorless camera. However, the performance of the new mirrorless glass is compelling.

Not sure if a lens benefit also exists for Sony or Canon mirrorless systems, but wanted to mention the added benefit on the Nikon side for mirrorless.
From some of my research into mirrorless systems compared to DSLR systems, it seems that a considerable amount of the higher "optical" quality of the Z and R lenses are due to software/firmware built-in to the lenses and camera bodies that compensate for optical aberrations in the lenses. It would be interesting to see how well these new lenses perform compared to their older versions without any computational corrections applied to them.

This makes me wonder if the optical engineering required to produce superb lenses is being displaced by software engineering to create such marvels.
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  #30  
Old 08-25-2023, 06:31 PM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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The primary trend in still photography now is replacing mechanical and optical excellence, plus some measure of technical ability, with computing power. Back when I was shooting slide film, the lens was the final determinant of photo quality, IF my technique was sufficient. Print film was more forgiving, because images could be brightened or darkened in the darkroom. As digital took hold, the camera's capabilities became more important than ever.

At this point, though, image processing is king, both in the camera and on the computer. The camera's image is just a starting point. Multiple images can be combined easily for better tonality, or to multiply faint light in astro and night photography. Lens distortions can be corrected. The selection of camera and lens has become less critical. Just find something you enjoy working with, from a brand that offers the lenses you need at a price you can afford. Don't fear missing out on some higher level of performance that can only be seen by "pixel-peeping."

Those who believe in the inevitable virtues of progress have flocked to mirrorless cameras. If you want to upgrade every few years, that's the way to go. Personally, I'm hanging on to one key element that feels "real" to me, and that's the image of the subject in a DSLR's optical viewfinder. I need to enjoy that image, to fall in love with it a little, to do my best work. I don't get that from the processed, artificial image of a mirrorless EVF. Why bother taking a picture of a picture? But that's just me, others will differ. Some of us cling to our acoustic instruments, too, though the electrics play louder...
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