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  #1  
Old 05-26-2023, 11:24 PM
Pine Cone Pine Cone is offline
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Default Building New Guitar Tones/Patches

So in a perfect electric guitar performance world, how do you build/create your signature guitar sound using a modeling amp/pedal?

I have chosen my Gretsch 5622T Electromatic as my performance electric guitar. For indoor performances earlier this year I have used my Bugera V5 tube amp. As the summer season approaches the band performances are moving outside to parks, farmer's markets and a street dance in a nearby town.

I found a used Line6 Pod Go at a good price locally with the intent of developing some custom tones/patches for these performances so I can travel with less gear, connecting the Pod Go to our QSC CP-8/Yamaha mixer based PA.

With a conventional tube amp you fiddle with the switches & knobs on your guitar and the knobs on your tube amp to come up with your sound(s).

The Pod Go has literally hundreds of thousands more options... 88 amp models, 246 effect models, up to 10 processing blocks... over 200,000 options before you start playing with guitar, amp, and effect knobs.

I started my journey with the built-in presets, and then with downloaded tones/patches.

Highly un-satisfying!

Then I played with modifying the presets and patches... what a mess. I was not sure what to modify in what order to make it sound "better".

Yesterday I decided to go back to basics, and created some simple patches based on the amp/preamp choices, with the default speaker cabs and no additional effects. The Pod Go likes to have a default volume and EQ so I let it do so.

So far so good! I have a starting point to explore from. From here I can add Noise Gates, Compressors, Delays & Reverbs, and then more and more...

About 3 weeks until our first big outdoor show... no pressure

So how do you all make your signature sounds?
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  #2  
Old 05-27-2023, 07:25 AM
Paleolith54 Paleolith54 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pine Cone View Post
So in a perfect electric guitar performance world, how do you build/create your signature guitar sound using a modeling amp/pedal?

I have chosen my Gretsch 5622T Electromatic as my performance electric guitar. For indoor performances earlier this year I have used my Bugera V5 tube amp. As the summer season approaches the band performances are moving outside to parks, farmer's markets and a street dance in a nearby town.

I found a used Line6 Pod Go at a good price locally with the intent of developing some custom tones/patches for these performances so I can travel with less gear, connecting the Pod Go to our QSC CP-8/Yamaha mixer based PA.

With a conventional tube amp you fiddle with the switches & knobs on your guitar and the knobs on your tube amp to come up with your sound(s).

The Pod Go has literally hundreds of thousands more options... 88 amp models, 246 effect models, up to 10 processing blocks... over 200,000 options before you start playing with guitar, amp, and effect knobs.

I started my journey with the built-in presets, and then with downloaded tones/patches.

Highly un-satisfying!

Then I played with modifying the presets and patches... what a mess. I was not sure what to modify in what order to make it sound "better".

Yesterday I decided to go back to basics, and created some simple patches based on the amp/preamp choices, with the default speaker cabs and no additional effects. The Pod Go likes to have a default volume and EQ so I let it do so.

So far so good! I have a starting point to explore from. From here I can add Noise Gates, Compressors, Delays & Reverbs, and then more and more...

About 3 weeks until our first big outdoor show... no pressure

So how do you all make your signature sounds?
I've never had luck modding the standard patches either, so I always also started with amp and cab models then went from there when I was trying modelers a few years back. Honestly, though, I've never really understood the whole "signature sound" business for the average player. Even for most well-known pros, it seems the "signature" part comes more from their fingers than their gear. Tom Morello (Rage Against The Machine) as I recall got so sick of fiddling with the amp that he picked one sound, marked the knob positions with Sharpies, said "this is my sound," and dove in. You could do the same with the modeler, and it seems you've started in the right direction: simpler is better, at least at first.
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Old 05-27-2023, 09:42 AM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Originally Posted by Paleolith54 View Post
...I've never really understood the whole "signature sound" business for the average player. Even for most well-known pros, it seems the "signature" part comes more from their fingers than their gear. Tom Morello (Rage Against The Machine) as I recall got so sick of fiddling with the amp that he picked one sound, marked the knob positions with Sharpies, said "this is my sound," and dove in...simpler is better, at least at first.
Actually, you do understand it - a synergy between technique/guitar/amp, and the simpler the better: even at the local level, it's that je ne sais quoi that makes you put down your drink and just listen to the music (and the venue owner smile as he counts his receipts ) and, as with any financially-gainful endeavor, IME it's never too early in the game to think in terms of what sets you apart from the rest of the crowd...
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Old 05-27-2023, 10:42 AM
GoPappy GoPappy is online now
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Have you thought about going with an amp modeler with fewer options, just to simplify life a little? E.g., something like the UA Dream 65, the Strymon Iridium or the Walrus ACS-1.

I recently bought the ACS-1 after watching a bunch of videos. There are 3 amp models to choose from (Fender Deluxe Reverb, 1962 Marshall Bluesbreaker or 1960s Vox AC30) and 6 different cabinets. In my opinion, the stock sounds are plenty good and are tweakable with the onboard EQ, Gain and Room controls. Plus, you can load in your own IRs if you're into that sort of thing (I'm not).

I chose the ACS-1 because (a) I found a great deal on a used one, (b) it has a headphone jack (important to me for music room practice sessions), (c) I liked the sound of it better than the Iridium on the demos I saw, and (d) the L+R switch on the ACS-1 provides some extra flexibility for sound sculpting. The negatives on the ACS-1 for me are that it only gets to the edge of breakup even with the Gain knob dialed up all the way, so adding your favorite overdrive pedal is a necessity for anything other than clean or edge-of-breakup. Also, I was hoping the Room knob would provide enough reverb to avoid adding a reverb pedal in the chain, but it doesn't. It does add some space to your sound, but not as much reverb as most of us would want.

In the demos, I thought the UA Dream 65 sounded fantastic, but it doesn't have a headphone jack, which is a deal-killer for me. If that's not important to you, the Dream 65 is on sale at Sweetwater right now for $80 off the regular price.

Last edited by GoPappy; 05-28-2023 at 09:56 AM.
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  #5  
Old 05-27-2023, 12:54 PM
Paleolith54 Paleolith54 is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
Actually, you do understand it - a synergy between technique/guitar/amp, and the simpler the better: even at the local level, it's that je ne sais quoi that makes you put down your drink and just listen to the music (and the venue owner smile as he counts his receipts ) and, as with any financially-gainful endeavor, IME it's never too early in the game to think in terms of what sets you apart from the rest of the crowd...
No, Iím quite clear on what I do and do not understand.
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  #6  
Old 05-28-2023, 08:12 AM
rmp rmp is offline
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Presets are usually heavy on almost everything.

the suggestion to start with basic modeling settings, no effects is the best advise I've seen on this thread.

get that to sound where you like it,

Add your desired effects from there.

Usually, this process gets you closer to what you are looking for.

sometimes you need to get into deeper editing modes using a PC or smartphone to get to certain settings that are not available with the physical controls.

Not sure about the pod GO but that's how the Fender Mustangs and Marshall Codes are.

I've used a number of them all things considered, It's really something that's as individual as what kind of strings or picks you like.

I will take a good tube and some pedals any day, but if you need to travel light and are ok with the compromise, you're in!
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Old 05-28-2023, 11:47 AM
Pine Cone Pine Cone is offline
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Thanks to everyone for the advice to keep it simple and start with an amp model and build from there. I built some patches yesterday that might work and about to go at it again today.

One thing I noticed that the more complex patches seem to make my playing feel numb and distant, making palm muting and pick and fingering dynamics less effective.
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Old 05-28-2023, 01:15 PM
TiffanyGuitar TiffanyGuitar is offline
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I have no Line 6 experience, but recently purchased a Boss Katana Air so I could have something on my desk to plug into with headphones and run backing tracks into it. Also, bought it for travel. I bought it used.

When it came, pretty sure the prior owner had non-factory amp models built into it. When I plugged into it, it was making some pretty "out-there" electric effect sounds. I reset it to factory (easy to do), and after using it for awhile, I am not sure why anyone would need to change the factory settings. I can make it match anything I have run through it without modding it and then getting lost with what you have done (I have heard that complaint a few times from Katana users about getting lost in the settings, what they did to it, and not knowing how to reset it back).

Generally, I am a keep it simple kind of person, and using the factory settings and not spending tons of time messing with something fits me pretty well.
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Old 05-29-2023, 10:47 AM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
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I'll share the advice given to me by LA session guitarist and Masterclass instructor, Tim Pierce. He told me that the tendency is for guitarists with modelers to feel bad that they're not using all of the 8 kajillion settings in their device. He advised me to go in the opposite direction. Keep it simple.

1) Pick an old-school amp, like a Vox, Matchless or Marshall. Set it at the edge of breakup so that your guitar is touch sensitive. That's your basic rhythm tone. If you roll the volume off a little and play light, it plays clean. If you set the guitar volume on 10 and play heavy, you've got crunch.

2) Set the tone knobs on your guitar so that they actually do something. You need to be able to fine tune your tone on stage.

3) Give yourself just enough reverb to take the edge off, but no more.

4) Pick a gain or overdrive pedal and find its sweet spot. Add just a touch of delay to fatten the tone but not so much that you consciously hear it. That's your lead tone.

That's it. Anything you add after that is coloring. Don't try to sound like every guitarist you've ever known. I've heard guys to that, and it ends up being a muddled mess. Don't download presets; they're always too tricked up. Find something simple that you like, and go from there.
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Old 05-29-2023, 07:46 PM
Pine Cone Pine Cone is offline
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Originally Posted by AX17609 View Post
Set it at the edge of breakup so that your guitar is touch sensitive.
Thank you so much for your advice. I understood pretty much everything but the bit I quoted above.

Could you please go into a bit more detail about what you mean?
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Old 05-29-2023, 07:55 PM
TiffanyGuitar TiffanyGuitar is offline
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Pretty sure what he means is - set the amp so when it is pretty clean you play lightly, but then goes more overdriven when the guitar is struck harder.

Tim Pierce is an absolute master. This is great advice. I sometimes practice into headphones, but find the experience of using my little Champ set basically this way much more satisfying and actually more challenging than playing into headphones. Headphones don't react the same way as a speaker.
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Old 05-29-2023, 11:14 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is online now
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Most of the time I start with an amp and go from there. Once in a while I will use a patch in storage, but every one of them gets modified. I like to keep things simple.

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Old 05-30-2023, 06:22 AM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pine Cone View Post
Thank you so much for your advice. I understood pretty much everything but the bit I quoted above.

Could you please go into a bit more detail about what you mean?
Tiffany and Glen responded correctly. "Touch sensitivity" means to set your amp so that your guitar plays clean when a note is struck lightly and distorts when played hard. With the guitar volume on 10, it'll be biased a bit toward distortion; when set lower than 10, it'll be biased toward clean. Down around 7 or so, you can play R&B rhythm. On 10, you can play power chords.

BTW -- Tim's recommendation comes straight from the horse's mouth. I'm a Masterclass student. He called me one day to respond to a question I had emailed to him. I pick up the phone and hear "Hi, this is Tim Pierce". I'm thinking, sure, and tomorrow I'll hear from Larry Carlton or Steve Lukather. But, it was the man, himself. His voice was unmistakable.

We chatted about my question for a few minutes, and then the discussion turned to modelers. If you've seen any of his recent videos, he's got an FM9 sitting next to him in his 'cockpit', so he knows of what he speaks. What I wrote above is pretty much what he told me word for word. I followed his advice, and I'm getting better tone today from my inexpensive PRS guitar and stupid little Spark amp than I got back in the day with a Les Paul thru a Marshall.

Last edited by AX17609; 05-31-2023 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 05-30-2023, 11:46 AM
phcorrigan phcorrigan is offline
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I'm relatively new to electric guitar, but I've had three modeling amps, none of which gave me the sound I wanted. Thanks to recommendations here (Thanks again, Steve DeRosa!) I settled on a Bugera V22 Infinium tube amp. I use a clean sound with some reverb. I gradually added a few pedals to get the sound I wanted. I use a compressor/sustainer, vintage delay, and graphic equalizer. I often use tremolo and sometimes use chorus. All pedals are set so they don't dominate or overwhelm the sound. I also have a tuner and noise reducer. I get complements on my sound.

BTW, all the pedals are Behringer, $25 ea. at Sweetwater. My understanding is that they are all electronically clones of equivalent Boss pedals at four times the price.
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Old 05-30-2023, 12:41 PM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AX17609 View Post
I'll share the advice given to me by LA session guitarist and Masterclass instructor, Tim Pierce. He told me that the tendency is for guitarists with modelers to feel bad that they're not using all of the 8 kajillion settings in their device. He advised me to go in the opposite direction. Keep it simple.

1) Pick an old-school amp, like a Vox, Matchless or Marshall. Set it at the edge of breakup so that your guitar is touch sensitive. That's your basic rhythm tone. If you roll the volume off a little and play light, it plays clean. If you set the guitar volume on 10 and play heavy, you've got crunch.

2) Set the tone knobs on your guitar so that they actually do something. You need to be able to fine tune your tone on stage.

3) Give yourself just enough reverb to take the edge off, but no more.

4) Pick a gain or overdrive pedal and find its sweet spot. Add just a touch of delay to fatten the tone but not so much that you consciously hear it. That's your lead tone.

That's it. Anything you add after that is coloring. Don't try to sound like every guitarist you've ever known. I've heard guys to that, and it ends up being a muddled mess. Don't download presets; they're always too tricked up. Find something simple that you like, and go from there.
Yup, that's how I do it as well, but my Helix patches are for sessions work. My main patches are based on a silly Deluxe reverb and a Marshall 1987. I've got a compressor always on and a Prince of Tone switched off until needed before the amp sims, my favorite cab after the amp, and an EQ, delay, and reverb on the back end. Voile'!

I usually go direct in the studio and play in the control room. For overdubs at my home studio I've got patches without the internal cabs that I run stereo with one leg going to a Marshall combo and the other to a Leslie. That gives great "in the room" sound. I also learned from David Gilmour to blend between rotary and normal amps for clarity. It works.

Bob
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