Taylor…Worst to Best

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Tom Petty used the imix with the M1 from 2006 until his final show in 2017. If I remember correctly, the sound tech would put mostly M1 in the monitors to control feedback but run more of the ibeam for the front of house tones. Petty always had a nice acoustic sound.

That’s an interesting bit of information that I was unaware of. Thanks!

[jay42]

I had an odd experience recently that I won't explain as much to say that some sound guys are still unfamiliar with the ES system and they won't take as a puzzle to solve.
I've never heard a Taylor with the Matrix system that sounded bad -- same goes for Anthem (SL or not)...whereas I rarely hear an ES system guitar that sounds good. I think it's for want of effort. If the ES presented a close to usable sound into a flat PA, all these complaints might evaporate.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by jay42

I've never heard a Taylor with the Matrix system that sounded bad -- same goes for Anthem (SL or not)...whereas I rarely hear an ES system guitar that sounds good.

Can you define “bad” and “good” in those case?

Is the ES (1 or 2) too trebly? Too bassy? Too quacky?

If it helps, you can refer to my previous post in which I posted samples of all 3 pickups, so everyone can listen. (The 2nd sample is always the pickup with no FX)

In my opinion, the sensors are not guilty it is how the preamp is voiced…
my 2 cents
Cuki

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Can you define “bad” and “good” in those case?

Is the ES (1 or 2) too trebly? Too bassy? Too quacky?

If it helps, you can refer to my previous post in which I posted samples of all 3 pickups, so everyone can listen. (The 2nd sample is always the pickup with no FX)

In my opinion, the sensors are not guilty it is how the preamp is voiced…
my 2 cents
Cuki

If I can add a point here, my issue with the original ES was that it sounded like an electric guitar. That's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but it was an odd tone for sure. I remember playing shows where I would solo up the neck and it sounded like I had switched to a hollow-bodied guitar. To be honest, I am surprised Taylor ever thought this was a useable system. It sounded nothing like any of the other pickups on the market.. in a bad way.

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

"Obsolete" is a relative term for acoustic pickups. How old are The Fishman Matrix, the Baggs element or the K&K pickups?

I believe Fishman Matrix is 30 years old... and still alive.
K&K twin spot was introduced in 1990.

Taylor marketing is aimed to promote novelty and thus dooms older products to obsolescence.

^^^
Spot on!
There's always a "new" shiny penny in the pickup world. I have a drawer full of them!
FWIW, one can order any Taylor with NO pickup and save yourself $300.

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Tom Petty used the imix with the M1 from 2006 until his final show in 2017. If I remember correctly, the sound tech would put mostly M1 in the monitors to control feedback but run more of the ibeam for the front of house tones. Petty always had a nice acoustic sound.

I have the "old" iMix (Element/iBeam) in 6 guitars. It is a great system. I plug straight into my Genzler Mini Array and get the tone I want. When we play bigger gigs, I go out of the Genzler into a Bose Tonematch/L1.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

^^^
Spot on!
There's always a "new" shiny penny in the pickup world. I have a drawer full of them!
FWIW, one can order any Taylor with NO pickup and save yourself $300.

Despite the fact that Taylor guitars are pretty consistent, I personally would never order a guitar I had never tried. It is unfortunate that they are so tied to their pickups. I am fine since I have moved on from wanting Taylor guitars, but give customers an option.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by jay42

I had an odd experience recently that I won't explain as much to say that some sound guys are still unfamiliar with the ES system and they won't take as a puzzle to solve.
I've never heard a Taylor with the Matrix system that sounded bad -- same goes for Anthem (SL or not)...whereas I rarely hear an ES system guitar that sounds good. I think it's for want of effort. If the ES presented a close to usable sound into a flat PA, all these complaints might evaporate.

I was hosting open mics in a couple of venues when the ES system was introduced. Some of the ES-equipped Taylor’s had a very usable sound while others had a hollow, in-the-cave sound which was difficult to do anything to improve. At the time, luthier and pickup designer Dave Wendler opined that every guitar is different and that the soundboard transducer which is incorporated into the ES system was’t placed in the best location for many of the ES guitars.

[jay42]

As best I can explain, ES guitars tend to need some deep notches in the A220 and 1 to 2kHz areas for starters. I don't hear good string to string clarity or definition. Put another way, I hear blur or smear where I want to hear up to six notes. I apologize if this is vague. I have heard improvement in a few guitar amplifiers where I have replaced the output transformers with upgrades.