Advice on recording

[Ten]

Armed with more courage than brains, and set free by my own ignorance, I set out to do some recording yesterday. Ive been testing things as time allows to make some observations over the last couple weeks. Never really sat down and tried to do this before.

I have sound treatment I use to basically construct an angled box around and above me. Carpet floor and a rug. Mic > Zoom L20 > MacBook Pro/Logic.

I have one 3 Zigma 47 model mic and was getting my best results trying to use that to capture both vocal and guitar (leaning vocal), then adding my plugged in signal panned around it.

I figured hey, I bet if I used another mic for guitar I could drop the plugged in signal and make it better.

Sadly, my other mics are not great (sm57/58, E835), nothing much local was for sale, so grabbed a 2035 from guitar center. Lesson learned. After one session yesterday, as of today the 2035 has been returned.

I wound up using the E835 panned partially one way, the 2035 the other, and the Zigma mostly vocal but also guitar in the middle.

Then, knowing absolutely nothing, I start adding EQ, compression, and reverb in Logic.

Now, while doing this I’m simply going through Logic Pro picking names that look like they may work (ie, choose “vocal room” then click on “Airy” or whatever). Not really touching a knob.

Surprisingly, it really did make it sound noticeably better. The EQ mix for “rock band” on the outputs seemed to help “gel” it together (although I’d like it to gel the tracks more).

Two questions…

Im looking at the C-LOL 12 TL Microphone as a second source to use for recording, but my only reservation is it seems like a one shot pony. The 47 I have seems more versatile. I honestly have no idea if I’d really be better off getting another mic like 251 or 87 (3 Zigma versions) that may complement the 47 better.

For what it’s worth, I chose “Male Lead Vocal” for the EQ on the vocal track from the 47 and it seemed to make it sit better in the mix, but I didn’t dive much further in the tool. It made me wonder if a mic with a different high end behavior may work better for my voice though.

I understand I won’t get full separation but I’m trying to do one take with multiple recorded tracks I can then work with in Logic. Singer/songwriter stuff.

Any thoughts on what mic you might choose and why?

Also, from a Logic Pro perspective, any key tips to a newbie to add some easy “polish” to a recording? Any key tips to “blend” the sounds of the tracks together in Logic?

[ChuckS]

I've got a few ADK 3-Zigma mics. They are a really good performing mic and a great value. The only LDC I have is the 47 style; I agree it's a versatile mic (the frequency response is pretty flat). If you're ok with it, and not looking for something specific for vocals, maybe you could consider adding a 3-Zigma mic with a small diameter cardioid capsule for your guitar. Their free omni capsule is also very nice, but it may or may not be good in your recording space. I haven't tried their hyper-cardioid capsule but that polar pattern is often very good on guitars.

[b1j]

Oh boy. The journey of a thousand miles. Congratulations on taking the first step.

Now comes the learning.

For me it was a MOOC (remember those?) by Berklee School of Music, years ago, comprised of six weeks of video lessons. Each week contained about 90 minutes of densely compacted videos (6 or 7 shorter ones) and an assignment to turn in. I ended up downloading — and transcribing (!) — every video, so that I now have all the videos and a 40-page Word file of the narration of the videos.

That was my introduction. In my case, I’m glad it all started this way. It gave me a construct for understanding mics, channels, samples and bits, signal flow and gain staging, the DAW, the mixer, and various modes of sound manipulation (plug-ins):
- dynamic effects: distortion, gate, compression, limiter
- filter and delay effects: EQ, delay, reverb, width, and space

There was a final week on sound synthesis, but it went over my head.

Just to see reverb and EQ as two related effects was a mind blower.

Have fun with it, and never stop learning.

[Bob Womack]

"The music is reversible but time is not! Turn back! Turn back! Turn back! Turn back!" - The intro to Electric Light Orchestra's "Fire On High" (reversed)

You are at the juncture in your life where it is possible to put down the mic, back away, and close the door. Your next moves could lead to calamity and depravity or sublime non-technicality.

I took the wrong pill years ago and look at the hideous things it did to me.




Turn back!

Bob

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Ten

Armed with more courage than brains, and set free by my own ignorance, I set out to do some recording yesterday. Ive been testing things as time allows to make some observations over the last couple weeks. Never really sat down and tried to do this before.

I have sound treatment I use to basically construct an angled box around and above me. Carpet floor and a rug. Mic > Zoom L20 > MacBook Pro/Logic.

I have one 3 Zigma 47 model mic and was getting my best results trying to use that to capture both vocal and guitar (leaning vocal), then adding my plugged in signal panned around it.

I figured hey, I bet if I used another mic for guitar I could drop the plugged in signal and make it better.

Sadly, my other mics are not great (sm57/58, E835), nothing much local was for sale, so grabbed a 2035 from guitar center. Lesson learned. After one session yesterday, as of today the 2035 has been returned.

I wound up using the E835 panned partially one way, the 2035 the other, and the Zigma mostly vocal but also guitar in the middle.

Then, knowing absolutely nothing, I start adding EQ, compression, and reverb in Logic.

Now, while doing this I’m simply going through Logic Pro picking names that look like they may work (ie, choose “vocal room” then click on “Airy” or whatever). Not really touching a knob.

Surprisingly, it really did make it sound noticeably better. The EQ mix for “rock band” on the outputs seemed to help “gel” it together (although I’d like it to gel the tracks more).

Two questions…

Im looking at the C-LOL 12 TL Microphone as a second source to use for recording, but my only reservation is it seems like a one shot pony. The 47 I have seems more versatile. I honestly have no idea if I’d really be better off getting another mic like 251 or 87 (3 Zigma versions) that may complement the 47 better.

For what it’s worth, I chose “Male Lead Vocal” for the EQ on the vocal track from the 47 and it seemed to make it sit better in the mix, but I didn’t dive much further in the tool. It made me wonder if a mic with a different high end behavior may work better for my voice though.

I understand I won’t get full separation but I’m trying to do one take with multiple recorded tracks I can then work with in Logic. Singer/songwriter stuff.

Any thoughts on what mic you might choose and why?

Also, from a Logic Pro perspective, any key tips to a newbie to add some easy “polish” to a recording? Any key tips to “blend” the sounds of the tracks together in Logic?

OH boy where to start ????
So you want (let's say)40 years worth knowledge skill and workflow working in a professional recording studio, in both recording and mixing condensed down to a couple questions ???

Ha! just teasing you--- likely most of us home enthusiasts have been at that "junction in the road" -- "point in the journey" and wanting to find out --what next ?

First I am fan of ADK and have the Z-Mod 251 as my main vocal mic.

That said: why are looking for a different high end response on your vocal ?

#1 Does your vocal recorded thru your 47 lack something in the high end "
Just so you know ,,this can often be mitigated thru both EQ and compression (particularly if you like the 47 's response through most of you vocal range)

#2 if it were me and I wanted to record both the vocal and guitar at the same time if would consider a pair of mic SDC mics for the guitar and your 47 for vocal (note you can play around with this before buying new mics by simply using your current stage dynamic mics like the 57 and 835 . I would consider SDC because you are going to be able to get slightly better separation then using more LDC's by having more directionality in the design...

#2 As far as new SDC's Assuming the Zoom has phantom power on multi channels ( And since you are will to spend $450 on the C-LOL-12 ,,certainly not a bad choice per se... I would also consider (albeit more money)either the ADK SD-H FX MP Matched Pair Microphones
Or at or closer to $500 the new Lauten Audio LA-120 V2 $499 a pair or (depending on your budget) the Warm Audio WA -84's @ $ 750


As a EQ 101 -- try using subtractive EQ first
Also experiment using slight compression after the EQ
Also put your reverb up on it's own Aux track and send the vocal and guitar tracks to it
Also experiment with putting an EQ before the reverb with the high and low pass filters set at 600 Hz and 8kHz Ok nuff for now

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I've got a few ADK 3-Zigma mics. They are a really good performing mic and a great value. The only LDC I have is the 47 style; I agree it's a versatile mic (the frequency response is pretty flat). If you're ok with it, and not looking for something specific for vocals, maybe you could consider adding a 3-Zigma mic with a small diameter cardioid capsule for your guitar. Their free omni capsule is also very nice, but it may or may not be good in your recording space. I haven't tried their hyper-cardioid capsule but that polar pattern is often very good on guitars.

+1. The 3 Sigma SD cardioid and hypercardioid capsules are excellent.

[Ten]

Thanks all, appreciate everyone’s time and knowledge.

1. As far as high end, when I applied EQ of “lead male vocal” it not only seemed to bring it to the front but also added what I can only define as “presence” to the higher end of the vocals. My thought was perhaps a different mic may suit me better and less need for that. Perhaps unavoidable at my current skill level.

2. Appreciate those recommendations. No real limits on number of phantom power mic connections.

…EQ: That sounds like my guitar approach. Vocals I find much more daunting to EQ. Live run e835 > Mic Mechanic.

Here, when I’m going to EQ I was just picking the name of a preset that seemed in the ballpark.

Also, Logic seemed to do some ongoing adaptive EQ thing running with the track, so I figured between the preset name and that doing what it does not I stood no chance of doing better.

The order of EQ then Compression is good to know.

The reverb track I would have never tried, nor the EQ. Many thanks for these tips.

Couple of things I e noticed are that I may go back and drop the 2035 track, or if I keep it put it in the middle too then the 835 panned around it. Not sure how much more time I’m going to put into those vs. waiting on the new mic(s) to start over fresh.

I’m not going for perfection (in either performance or production), but hopefully I can do well enough to let the songs come through despite my limitations.

And tbh, I’m at least excited to try and do better, not knowing when I started if I’d be able to create something I’m pleased with. Now I feel I’ve made a lot of headway and am confident I can do better.

Atm, I’m seeing matched pairs of the 3 Zigma capsules for 600 so I’m leaning that way but not fully decided.

[ChuckS]

Are you shopping direct from ADK at hybridmic.com? Also, I assume you are aware that the 3-Zigma CHI head amp are available with transformers (FX model) or transformerless (TL model)

[Ten]

https://reverb.com/item/4351065-3-zi...ontent=4351065

I only see the FX but they give choice of capsules so figured I’d ask and see, and honestly wasn’t sure which of the two I’d order with the choice if given. I see the TL is the choice of the big boys, but perhaps color can help an amateur?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Ten

https://reverb.com/item/4351065-3-zi...ontent=4351065

I only see the FX but they give choice of capsules so figured I’d ask and see, and honestly wasn’t sure which of the two I’d order with the choice if given. I see the TL is the choice of the big boys, but perhaps color can help an amateur?

That Reverb add is Front End Audio which are a good dealer to deal with
You might check out their web site directly

https://www.frontendaudio.com/microp...nf=1&brand=207

[Ten]

Appreciate the link. Gave a call and they were nice enough to reach out to ADK and confirm more were coming Tuesday. 568 total no tax for the matched pair.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Ten

Appreciate the link. Gave a call and they were nice enough to reach out to ADK and confirm more were coming Tuesday. 568 total no tax for the matched pair.

What capsules are you planning to get?

[Ten]

SD-C TL. Considered the FX as well as hyper cardioid, but this seemed a solid middle ground. Matched pair TL SD-C on the guitar wth the Lollipop 47 for voice and see what I get. I think it’ll be close enough to satisfy my curiosity of what I can accomplish…for now.