Deepening Saddle Slot - SOLVED

[Robin, Wales]

The action on my camping guitar is just a wee bit high. The relief and nut slots are good but I can't drop the saddle any lower without loosing break angle. Ideally, the guitar would have a neck reset. But that's not something I could do myself , and the guitar is not worth paying someone who could.

However, it does have quite a tall bridge and, if I skimmed about 1mm off it then I could drop the saddle by 1mm and gain the 0.5mm at the 12th fret I need.

Skimming the bridge is easy. Reaming the peg holes, if required, shouldn't prove too difficult. But deepening the saddle slot has me stumped (sorry there's some silly misinformation about "I'm stumped" being an American phrase referring to Pioneers cutting down trees whereas we all know that its true heritage comes from playing cricket!).

So, any tips on how to easily deepen the saddle slot by 1mm in a bridge (that doesn't involve complex jigs and mini routers or removing the bridge) would be greatly appreciated.

[Willie_D]

There's also the option of cutting small slots in the string holes in the bridge.
Check out this article.
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...tringramp.html

Some folks do this with a jigsaw blade (not a jigsaw, just the blade.)

[Brucebubs]

Have you considered leaving the saddle slot area as is and maybe dropping the pins down on a lower level to maintain break angle, then just drop the saddle height - like Alvarez do on some of their models.

[Glen H]

Some folks (me) have done it with a jigsaw
I know of no simple way to accurately cut the slot deeper. The floor of the slot, you do want dead flat.

[lar]

You can get one of these:

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tool...-levelers.html

I had some finish spray on the bottom of the slot and these cleaned it out nicely, and quickly.

Are your pins solid or slotted? If slotted, this would be an opportunity to ramp the bridge as previously recommended. The advantage would be less damage to the bridge plate over time (a long time), and slightly higher break angle. I like this option since I dislike the ramifications of slotted pins on the bridge plate. But as a camping guitar, you probably don't care. However, it does offer you a break angle increase. Going this route you don't have to buy new pins, just turn them 180 degrees.

[Tuch]

lower the saddle height -why make a mountain out of a mole hill!-there is no short cut

the slot base has to be left 100% flat & level!without deviation etc.routing it etc-is the traditional route.one cannot re invent the wheel.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Glen H

The floor of the slot, you do want dead flat.

Originally Posted by Tuch

the slot base has to be left 100% flat & level!without deviation etc.

These statements come up often, that the bottom of a saddle slot needs to be very flat. Without question, for a piezo-electric transducer between the bottom of the slot and the bottom of the saddle, one does need a close match.

However, it isn't clear that it really is necessary if one does not have such a transducer in place. I have asked on more than one occasion if anyone - anyone - has done reasonably controlled testing/experiements to determine if there is any identifiable difference between a "dead flat" saddle bottom and/or slot bottom and those that are not. No one has yet said that they have any hard evidence that supports that belief that they need to be "dead flat".

One simple, low-tech way to deepen a saddle slot - if one is not using a piezo transducer - is to use a chisel like a scraper and scrape the bottom of the slot. I've done that, as necessary, for decades and never found any audible difference before or after. I know that the bottom of a scraped slot is not "dead flat", whatever tolerance that might be in technical terms.

Until someone has some evidence that being "dead flat" matters, it appears to be urban legend. Sure, it sounds plausible, but that doesn't necessarily make it true.


As an aside, if you are only lowering the bridge height by 1 mm, unless the saddle purchase is already questionable, you likely don't really need to deepen the saddle slot.

[Robin, Wales]

Many thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. I have some ideas now for a way forward. I will do some careful measuring and decide on a balance of skimming the bridge, slotting the peg holes and scrapping the saddle slot.

[Glen H]

No evidence, but I want mine flat and recommend the same. No benefits that I can think of for arched or dipped or sloped or uneven. And if that under saddle pickup needs installation, less need for copper tape and wasted hours getting an even signal. I file this under common sense, not urban legend.

[RoyBoy]

I agree with Charles on not deepening the slot. If the top of the saddle is only coming down 1mm, I'd shave the back of the bridge and angle it up to the slot. A rabbeting plane would make quick work of it.

re: slot geography, I would not try to deepen it unless absolutely necessary because it is so hard to get the bottom flat and level without a router template set up. On a beater guitar, an irregular slot bottom may not appreciably affect tone. On a better instrument, perhaps. I know on mandolins we go to great lengths to get the feet of the bridge perfectly mated to the top of the instrument. It does make a big difference in the tone

[redir]

I use micro chisels for this type of work. IT takes a bit of skill to get it right but it works. Drill two depth stop holes at each end of the slot and one in the middle then use the chisel in a normal manor to remove material fast then use it as a scraper to level it off.

EDIT: Oh yeah and... With a sharp razor knife run a line along the back and front edge of the bottom of the slot connecting the drill holes. Then when you chisel it comes right out. Continue using the knife as you lower the slot.

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tool...-set-of-4.html

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Glen H

No evidence, but I want mine flat and recommend the same.

To be clear, I'm asking a question, looking for those that have substantiating evidence to support their claims, one way or the other. I have only my own subjective experience, which I shared. In areas where I have no substantiating evidence, I don't generally make recommendations on what others should or shouldn't do.

No benefits that I can think of for arched or dipped or sloped or uneven.

The most obvious ones are that it can take less time and can be accomplished with simple tools.

If it matters in some relevant way - "better" tone, for example - of course it makes sense to put in the added time, effort and setup to produce a flat-bottomed slot and saddle. If it isn't something that really does produce a tangible outcome, it is misplaced time and effort.

In the absence of any "hard" evidence one way or the other, it is arbitrary and people can do whichever more appeals to them.

And if that under saddle pickup needs installation, less need for copper tape and wasted hours getting an even signal.

It usually takes me about 5 minutes.

I file this under common sense, not urban legend.

I file this under unsubstantiated belief. I don't have a problem with people believing whatever they want, but, in my opinion, it is important to recognize that believing something doesn't make it true.

[BradHall]

StewMac makes a great file just for saddle slots. Removes material in small increments and leaves a flat bottom 90deg. to the sides.

[Robin, Wales]

I do like the look of the StewMac slot files and small chisels. But they would cost me more to import into the UK than my guitar cost new! However, I'm sure I can find similar tools to do the same jobs.

I'm away from home for the next few weeks. I have the camping guitar with me and will tackle the bridge and saddle when I get back home. In the meantime I'm enjoying playing it in some wild places on the Outer Hebrides.

[Willie_D]

I would sand the bottom of the saddle rather than attempt to deepen the slot, for the simple fact that there is zero risk of permanent damage to the instrument. It's also a simpler procedure.