microphone/digital recorder recommendations for around $300

[him]

I know the problem/share your desire for simplicity. In fact I just ordered a hand-held for myself. Amazon has the Tascam DR-40 for about $155 delivered via a 15% off promo right now (guess what I just rolled the dice on)...

I don't have it yet so no advice or comments. I have heard bad things about the mic pre noise on all of these handhelds and the DR-40 has XLR line in (unlike the H4N) which may avoid some of that. I already have a mic pre or two available already though so it's a relatively cheap experiment for me.

The real solution is probably to learn to love what you got, hiss and all. "Character," or something.....

[mc1]

i was just trying the h2 again, and the sound really is pretty good. i tried a few different locations and ended up with it about 6-7 inches away.

the hiss is mainly noticable at the very end as the notes die away. and in a couple spots where the i hold chords for a bit.

thanks again for your help, do post your thoughts on the dr-40.

edit: having written that, i was just boosting the levels and adding some reverb and it's a bit hissy again. oh well.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by him

...
You need a way to support two mics independently. Ideally you want a choice of X/Y or one above the 12th fret, one above the bridge. You may be close already here and may be able to lash somehing up DIY style so I'm not counting this in the price, but it is important.

Now... a pair of behringer emc8000 mics at about $55/ea.
...

XY is essentially meaningless with omni mics. And the EMC8000 has a self-noise characteristic very similar to the Zoom H2.

Fran

[him]

edit: having written that, i was just boosting the levels and adding some reverb and it's a bit hissy again. oh well.

When you boost the levels, is it just a straight boost or is there some sort of curve?

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

XY is essentially meaningless with omni mics. And the EMC8000 has a self-noise characteristic very similar to the Zoom H2.

Fran

I agree on the first point. I just think the stand/mic support arrangement should allow a range of configurations including X/Y - these probably won't be the last mics used, but it might be the last stand so why build/buy twice. Sorry for any confusion.

I'll defer to your experience on the second point. My suspicion was/is that the self noise is innately worse (nature of the beast there) but would be offset with better preamps and a better A/D (I have read that the HxN series isn't always true 24b...is that true?). I'll freely admit I haven't played with the H2 tho and time with the tools always trumps theory. I can't think of any other mics that would be even remotely in budget and have much chance of long-term usefulness though.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by him

When you boost the levels, is it just a straight boost or is there some sort of curve?

darned if i know. i used a free reaper plug-in call sweetboy volcano maximizer, which i like because i only need to use one control.

here is the raw file:
http://soundcloud.com/mc1mc/tng
i posted the end result here:
http://soundcloud.com/mc1mc/tongue-n-groove
show and tell thread here:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=222479

[him]

I can't listen to your tracks now but I look forward to it later.

At a guess the plugin you are using has some compression built in and is too aggressive. That's why your quiet passages are ramping up ("pumping"). Your recorder isn't using auto gain control, but volcano is simulating it for you. D'oh.

Try a different maximizer. Alternatively, I bet there are compressor/limiter plug-ins that will let you bump the levels and squeeze the dynamics without mangling your final sound too much. Just a touch is good, more than a touch is evil. The result will sound quiet to modern CD/TV/Radio-acclimatized ears but c'mon, it's a single acoustic guitar, it shouldn't sound like the thundering voice of 10,000 NASCAR announcers.

That's my spin anyway.

[CrankyChris]

Originally Posted by mc1

darned if i know. i used a free reaper plug-in call sweetboy volcano maximizer, which i like because i only need to use one control.

here is the raw file:
http://soundcloud.com/mc1mc/tng
i posted the end result here:
http://soundcloud.com/mc1mc/tongue-n-groove
show and tell thread here:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=222479

Can't access here. That's likely a compressor/limiter that squashes all the dynamics out (and with makeup gain -it raises the noise level). But if you're noticing that much noise, your source may be too noisy to begin with

[mc1]

Originally Posted by him

I can't listen to your tracks now but I look forward to it later.

At a guess the plugin you are using has some compression built in and is too aggressive. That's why your quiet passages are ramping up ("pumping"). Your recorder isn't using auto gain control, but volcano is simulating it for you. D'oh.

Try a different maximizer. Alternatively, I bet there are compressor/limiter plug-ins that will let you bump the levels and squeeze the dynamics without mangling your final sound too much. Just a touch is good, more than a touch is evil. The result will sound quiet to modern CD/TV/Radio-acclimatized ears but c'mon, it's a single acoustic guitar, it shouldn't sound like the thundering voice of 10,000 NASCAR announcers.

That's my spin anyway.

Originally Posted by CrankyChris

Can't access here. That's likely a compressor/limiter that squashes all the dynamics out (and with makeup gain -it raises the noise level). But if you're noticing that much noise, your source may be too noisy to begin with

my uneducated guess is it's mainly just boosting the signal and the low recording level and self-noise is becoming evident as hiss.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by mc1

i was just trying the h2 again, and the sound really is pretty good. i tried a few different locations and ended up with it about 6-7 inches away.

the hiss is mainly noticable at the very end as the notes die away. and in a couple spots where the i hold chords for a bit.

thanks again for your help, do post your thoughts on the dr-40.

edit: having written that, i was just boosting the levels and adding some reverb and it's a bit hissy again. oh well.

Hey, I'm 66 this year and played a lot of electric guitar too loud so my hearing is definitely rolled off on top. But I'm not hearing this hiss you're talking about when I play either of your sample tracks on a pair of Dynaudio BM6 speakers. And I can hear the hiss in the tails of my HBM samples. Based on my listening you might be playing back through a system with a pronounced high end boost, or your levels might be a lot louder than mine, or my hearing is even worse than I thought.

Fran

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

Hey, I'm 66 this year and played a lot of electric guitar too loud so my hearing is definitely rolled off on top. But I'm not hearing this hiss you're talking about when I play either of your sample tracks on a pair of Dynaudio BM6 speakers. And I can hear the hiss in the tails of my HBM samples. Based on my listening you might be playing back through a system with a pronounced high end boost, or your levels might be a lot louder than mine, or my hearing is even worse than I thought.

Fran

thanks for listening. i hear it most pronounced at the very end, but i can hear it all through. i definitely am playing it quite loud. on my computer i am listening with my bose companion speakers, which i think tend to accentuate the hiss. through my headphones i also hear the hiss when i have it turned up. i didn't see any eq engaged, but it's a low end audio 'card' (part of the motherboard).

i just burned it to cd to playback on my stereo, which gave similar results when turned up. but the same headphones on my laptop generate less hiss. maybe i'm getting a little hypersensitive.

since you had a listen, any other advice for me?

[mc1]

i did one more recording this morning. the tracks are in the same place (see below), although soundcloud is having a little trouble and their server went down once already.

i think the recording and playing is about as good as i can get it.

here is the raw file:
http://soundcloud.com/mc1mc/tng
i posted the end result here:
http://soundcloud.com/mc1mc/tongue-n-groove

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by mc1

...
since you had a listen, any other advice for me?

Nope. Well, the same advice I always give everyone, including myself - play more, record more, play more, record more.

Fran

[him]

I listened to your recordings; quite nice. I have heard much worse presented as much better. My only real advice now is to remember the old saw: A great camera won't make you a photographer, a great guitar won't make you a guitarist, and a great microphone won't make you a recording engineer. Ok, it usually stops at the first comma and is better for it but you get the idea - practice trumps money.

My DR-40 arrived Friday so I had a good chance to play around. It is what I thought/hoped it would be. Unfortunately I don't have experience with the immediate competition so my view is too narrow to be meaningful but I think it was $155.90 well spent.

After playing around I do have to go back to my surprise about your distance. Seems to be working for you so this is just blather, but with the -40 I'm happiest overall when the distance is maybe 12-18". Shrug.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by him

I listened to your recordings; quite nice. I have heard much worse presented as much better. My only real advice now is to remember the old saw: A great camera won't make you a photographer, a great guitar won't make you a guitarist, and a great microphone won't make you a recording engineer. Ok, it usually stops at the first comma and is better for it but you get the idea - practice trumps money.

thank you for listening and for your comments. i think your advice is sage. i really need to spend more time with the equipment i have. regards.

(fran - thanks again as well)

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

look at the H2n.

Fran

just to follow up on this. i was in a music store a couple of weeks ago and they had a H2n for $199CDN, so i decided to buy it. i was playing around with it yesterday, and it is seems to be a very noticable improvement over the H2. i could easily overdrive it with my fingerstyle playing and the H2n about a foot away, so i had to roll back the input a bit. with the H2, even at 4 inches away and the input level at max, i couldn't get close to overdriving it.

the self noise was also lower. and the controls have a better layout. so i'm quite pleased and it was definitely worth it.

thanks fran. and thanks him as well.