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#16
10-19-2020, 08:38 PM
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Even though I'm around it all the time, I find digital audio irritating. Always, at least a little.
I can put on a pre-80's never-been-digital LP or even one of those major-label quarter-track tapes (I have a few good ones) and listen to it all the way though. Pops crackles and all. Even if it's a record I don't particularly like. It both energizes and relaxes me. But put on a CD for listening pleasure (as opposed to something work-related) and i'll get annoyed with it after two or three songs. Doesn't really matter what the music is or how well it was produced. And I don't think it's strictly about "hearing," per se, it's a reaction on a central nervous system level. While the majority of people under 40 in 2020 probably have no memory of hearing any recorded or broadcast audio that's never been digital, a lot of the usuals here are a bit older. Or older than that, like me. Surely this must strike a chord with some of you. 
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#17
10-20-2020, 06:44 AM
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I still remember hearing my first CD and thinking "Wow! Finally, music without all the noise!" Not to mention the wow and flutter, etc.
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#18
10-20-2020, 08:14 AM
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Analog and digital remind me of the recent cataract surgery I had. Everything used to have a slight amber tone to it. Though I didn't know it. Now everything has a blue light tone to it. And I know it. I'd rather it be like it was but that's not an option. I have to accept what is and in so doing I find reasons to tell myself it's okay.
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#19
10-20-2020, 09:39 AM
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As to the motion anomalies, very early in the digital era I had an opportunity to use a Sony F1 to record a piano recital at Alice Tully Hall in New York, which I did along with using their usual Ampex tape machines. When the artist first heard the playback with absolutely zero wow and flutter, he literally shed tears. But we had no way to edit the stuff, so the resulting record was from the analog version. Oh well.
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#20
10-20-2020, 10:08 AM
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But yes, my reaction to CDs was more at this than the "Oh, I can hear the digital and it hurts my brain" group. There were differences in how recordings were recorded, mixed and mastered that happened alongside the move to digital recording, and it's possible that I have nostalgia and maybe even some lingering preference for the earlier era's production and mastering styles (though when I listen to some early stereo vinyl LP mixes I often think they're quite odd).
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----------------------------------- Creator of The Parlando Project Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses....
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#21
10-20-2020, 12:08 PM
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But getting back to the original question, most LPs haven't been entirely analog since the mid-80's, even if they're labeled AAA (SPARS Code meaning recorded and mixed on tape and released on vinyl).
Here's why: as the technology of disc cutting advanced, a circuit was developed for the lathe that would make program-dependent adjustments to the cutter head. It was then discovered that this worked best if the signal the circuit was reacting to arrived slightly earlier than the the signal that was actually sent to the cutter head. So tape machines were made with two slightly-apart repro heads and their associated electronics, one path for "preview" and the other for the actual audio. These machines were rare and expensive. On major label, international rush releases, with sets of lacquers being cut for pressing plants all over the world on a tight deadline, even the biggest mastering houses didn't have enough of those machines. So when digital technology started to become available, mastering houses began using conventional, single-playback tape machines and sent the analog audio the the preview circuit while feeding it the audio through a digital delay to be sent to the cutter head. This was a Big Secret back then, and only done on huge rush jobs, but it's commonplace and SOP now. Last edited by Brent Hahn; 10-26-2020 at 09:23 AM.
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#22
10-25-2020, 10:27 AM
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Analog vinyl is alive and well... at a price. You can buy brand new all analog remastered pressings. Here are a couple of sources:
Acoustic Sounds Music Direct While digital audio playback has been constantly improving so has analog playback. Check out the turntables, cartridges and preamps at these stores too.
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#23
10-25-2020, 10:56 PM
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When the sun sets, (or rises) is the light moving in an analog or in digital fashion?
When the radio/TV station is pumping out it’s signal through the air, is it analog or digital? Surprisingly, it’s digital! One photon, or one electron (or hole) at a time! -How about that!
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#25
10-26-2020, 09:30 AM
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#26
10-26-2020, 09:31 AM
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This discussion reminds me of my days trading Dead tapes. Everyone was looking for low generation copies of great source tapes. Digital recording and playback were just taking off in the later '80s and early '90s. But the gold standard for a home setup seemed to be dual Nakamichi analog decks for re-recording a tape. So people would brag about the gorgeous analog sound of their Nak reproductions when they were re-recording music that had been broken down digitally sometime earlier in the process, either in the original recording process or maybe in a second or third generation re-recording. Yeah, but you're getting a tape made on a NAK!!!! So what - if it's an analog recording of a digital source, it's still basically digital. A chain is as strong as it's weakest link and that's as true in sound production / re-production as with anything else.
So sure, if you're willing and able to go all analog from recording to mixing to mastering and you don't mind the hassles incumbent in that process (splicing tape never struck me as a lot of fun), then you can get a recording that will sound a bit better than digital if you've got great playback equipment and better ears than I have anymore. But if there's digital in the process, that's what it sounds like. As Bob said, if you're gonna have digital in the chain, may as well do the whole thing that way because mixing the two you kind of get the worst of both worlds. -Ray
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"It's just honest human stuff that hadn't been near a dang metronome in its life" - Benmont Tench
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#27
10-26-2020, 04:58 PM
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So you're right about the classic AM and FM, but there has been digital terrestrial radio for some time now. And then there's "Satellite Radio" AKA Sirius. So, some folks are listening to digital radio in their cars. And since the OP was about the "whole chain" just about all radio stations play off a digital system in this century. I helped convert a music network to the goal of 100% digital playback in the mid 90s. Though we were North American, the system we used was the technology the Australian Broadcasting Company used! We still had a huge vinyl library (the music service part of the network was "Classical Music"). Everything is played off a hard drive, with a playlist like you're using iTunes or the like. We still had lots of live hosts, keying playback with real analog fingers on the mouse, but of course the norm became in the industry centralized automation. When we later started a contemporary music service from scratch I was actually supplying ripping software to hosts and staff personal computers and we all were ripping from our own CD libraries to fill the new service's server with tunes for the new service! But later, when vinyl became a young hipster thing, the hosts made occasional use of the studio's turntables there for the classical service!
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----------------------------------- Creator of The Parlando Project Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses.... Last edited by FrankHudson; 10-26-2020 at 05:13 PM.
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#28
10-31-2020, 06:03 AM
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...I listen to music from a variety of sources including vinyl...at the end of the day the actual quality of the recording is what either amazes me...or doesn’t amaze me....plenty of examples of both great and not so great recordings exist in both the analog and digital realm....
...as far as vinyl goes....I have been truly amazed by some of the digitally remastered stuff and completely unimpressed by some of it too...the same goes for vintage vinyl...ultimately it all goes back to the original recording date and whether or not the musicians,producers,and engineers managed to capture lightening in a bottle or not.... Last edited by J Patrick; 10-31-2020 at 06:08 AM.
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#29
10-31-2020, 06:51 AM
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 By the way, for those who are absolute nerds, I didn't mention the CLASP system (Closed Loop Analog Signal Processor). CLASP is an interesting hybrid that uses analog multitrack as a processing system, imparting its character to the signal. You record onto analog and that product is printed to a DAW as well. That means that all the saturation practices we are used to with analog can be used and the high-end round-off and bass bump we get from analog is enjoyed. But, the actual tape substrate us reused, lowering costs dramatically and cueing and playback are instantaneously. More HERE. Bob
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"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website)
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