Acoustic Guitar Live Mic - DPA 4099, Bartlett, K&K trinity

tchip8 · #1 10-01-2022, 07:27 AM

I'm looking to upgrade my acoustic sound. As with most other acoustic gigging musicians, I have struggled to find a pickup that does any justice to my guitars. I am looking to add a mic in addition to my k&k pure mini and use a zoom a3 preamp to blend the two signals. My trio uses IEMs so feedback shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I have scoured the internet and have narrowed down my options to three (please let me know if you know of any other good options). The best option seems to be the DPA 4099, but is also the most expensive. Im also looking at the bartlett and k&k trinity systems. Does anyone have experience with any of these on acoustic guitar? Is it worth shelling out for the 4099? Thanks y'all.

Doug Young · #2 10-01-2022, 12:04 PM

I've used all three at various times. The 4099 is basically a condenser mic that attaches to your guitar on the outside. Pros: sounds good, like a decent external mic. Attached to your guitar, so you're not glued to a mic stand. Cons: may be in the way of some guitar styles, mount tends to fall off, placement options are more limited than just using a stand-mounted mic. I reviewed the 4099 for AG years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixdv3mE98j8 I think they did an updated review more recently.

The Bartlett, I've used as an internal mic, along with an SBT. It works well like that. Clipping to the guitar also works ok, tho the placement options are less than the 4099. I have a friend who uses one with her violin, and that sounds really good, tho violins are a bit different (louder, for one thing) than guitars. I reviewed one Bartlett model years ago for AG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqu7m0np0Oc.

The K&K, I assume you mean adding the Silver Bullet mic to your existing K&Ks. It's an OK internal mic, and will definitely add some "air" to your sound. Lots of people use this system. I'm not sure you can power it from your Zoom, it needs 9 volts or less (I think that's right, K&K has recently added some restrictions), which is typically provided on the ring of a TRS cable by the preamp. You'd have to explore how that would work with your A3. There are lots of similar mics that don't have the restrictions K&K has put on the Silver Bullet if you decide to go this route.

tchip8 · #3 10-01-2022, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I've used all three at various times. The 4099 is basically a condenser mic that attaches to your guitar on the outside. Pros: sounds good, like a decent external mic. Attached to your guitar, so you're not glued to a mic stand. Cons: may be in the way of some guitar styles, mount tends to fall off, placement options are more limited than just using a stand-mounted mic. I reviewed the 4099 for AG years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixdv3mE98j8 I think they did an updated review more recently.

The Bartlett, I've used as an internal mic, along with an SBT. It works well like that. Clipping to the guitar also works ok, tho the placement options are less than the 4099. I have a friend who uses one with her violin, and that sounds really good, tho violins are a bit different (louder, for one thing) than guitars. I reviewed one Bartlett model years ago for AG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqu7m0np0Oc.

The K&K, I assume you mean adding the Silver Bullet mic to your existing K&Ks. It's an OK internal mic, and will definitely add some "air" to your sound. Lots of people use this system. I'm not sure you can power it from your Zoom, it needs 9 volts or less (I think that's right, K&K has recently added some restrictions), which is typically provided on the ring of a TRS cable by the preamp. You'd have to explore how that would work with your A3. There are lots of similar mics that don't have the restrictions K&K has put on the Silver Bullet if you decide to go this route.

Thanks for the advice, doug! Any chance you have used the atm350? Seems pretty similar to the 4099, but about half the cost. The mount seems a bit more sturdy too. I’ve heard the 4099 mount is a bit finicky which won’t work for me as I move around during performance and can’t be worrying about the mic coming off.

Doug Young · #4 10-01-2022, 11:35 PM

No, I haven't had a chance to try that one

shufflebeat · #5 10-02-2022, 02:48 AM

Worth considering if it's not too Rock & Roll:

iRig Acoustic Stage.

PANDAPANDELO · #6 10-02-2022, 06:43 AM

There's the new Neumann MCM 114 for clip-on mics!

guitarman68 · #7 10-02-2022, 07:27 AM

I used all three of them as well as the ATM350 and (my personal favorite) DPA4061.
The K&K Trinity mic (latest version) runs on 5V which reduces the fitting preamps / blenders to their own K&K Trinity preamp. It's a good sounding mic, possibly the best bang for the buck, as long as you reduce some amount of bass (typical for all internal mics).
I never liked the clamp of the DPA4099 for guitar and mandolin, I prefer the ATM350 (on mandolin, never used it on guitar): The clamp is more sturdy as is the cable.
The Bartlett is a great option clamped on the edge of the soundhole.
So to me it depends if you want to go external (clamp) or internal (soldered to the jack).

tchip8 · #8 10-02-2022, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarman68

I used all three of them as well as the ATM350 and (my personal favorite) DPA4061.
The K&K Trinity mic (latest version) runs on 5V which reduces the fitting preamps / blenders to their own K&K Trinity preamp. It's a good sounding mic, possibly the best bang for the buck, as long as you reduce some amount of bass (typical for all internal mics).
I never liked the clamp of the DPA4099 for guitar and mandolin, I prefer the ATM350 (on mandolin, never used it on guitar): The clamp is more sturdy as is the cable.
The Bartlett is a great option clamped on the edge of the soundhole.
So to me it depends if you want to go external (clamp) or internal (soldered to the jack).

if i were to go the bartlett route, could i solder to the jack and still provide phantom to the mic through trs?

guitarman68 · #9 10-02-2022, 01:41 PM

A dedicated preamp/blender will do what you need: K&K Trinity, SunnAudio MS-2, Grace Felix ... When soldered to the jack the internal mic needs to get phantom powered from an internal or external preamp/blender.

Doug Young · #10 10-02-2022, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tchip8

if i were to go the bartlett route, could i solder to the jack and still provide phantom to the mic through trs?

You'd need a 3-wire jack just for the mic, either an XLR jack in the guitar, or a TRS jack and then a TRS to XLR cable. So 2 jacks in the guitar.

This thing of adding a mic to a guitar is a matter of planning out the whole system. By far, the simplest approaches are either:

1. External mic, either on a stand or attached (DPA4099, etc), into an XLR input on some mixer/blender. Separately, you can have a pickup with its own cable and possibly its own signal chain, if wanted.

2. An internal mic that uses a 2-wire powering scheme, along with a pickup, both connected to 1 TRS jack, then into a preamp via a TRS cable to a preamp/blender that supports power (bias power, not "phantom") for the mic. I get asked about this so often that I wrote up a blog ppost with photos: https://dougyoungguitar.com/blog/blo...l-mic-to-a-k-k

Either approach is quite easy if you have all the right gear. Trying to force-fit a signal chain that doesn't work together is hard to impossible.