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  #1  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:22 AM
adaw2821 adaw2821 is offline
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Default DI boxes

So a while back I started a thread about the problems I was having using my guitar plugged in at church even though I love the sound plugged in at home or solo. The thread is hear: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=475110 and I think the term I was maybe hunting for is clearity.

Well I called 2 different guitar centers and the first thing they both told me is I need a DI box. Pointed me towards a LR baggs or fishman.

My question is, if I need a DI box, is there a cheaper, simpler option to get the job done? I have an EQ pedal so, to me, I don't need that in a DI box.

I'm wanting to run my Yamaha A3R with built-in modeling and preamp, through a couple of effects, delay reverb, EQ, into a mixer.

I guess I'm looking for sound quality not a lot of features. If I can get that with something else great. If not I'll have to start saving
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:37 AM
akafloyd akafloyd is offline
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If your tone is suffering because of an impedance mismatch a simple DI box may do the trick. You should be able to get a Whirlwind IMP for around $50, it will turn your guitar signal into a signal more like a microphone and you'll then use a microphone cable from that to the mixer. The GC folks sound like they are recommending a preamp which will have DI capabilities, and much more that you don't seem to need. Some mixers have 1/4" input options that are really line level, and often balanced, and they're looking for different output level and impedance than what you're guitar is offering, sometimes that works fine and others it doesn't. Does the mixer have a dedicated guitar input? Try that, too.
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Old 07-18-2017, 11:11 AM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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There's always something cheaper but you may not like the outcome.

If you're running into the house you definitely need a DI of some sort to get there. If your pickup is active (battery powered) you can probably get away with a passive DI like the Radial ProDI or something active that's simple like the Radial PZ DI (which has adjustable impedance).

If you have a passive pickup (no battery or power source) you may like a preamp/DI combo better. Plenty of people use the LR Baggs Para DI, Venue DI, or Session DI with both active & passive pickups with much success & the Para isn't very expensive. Some rather like the Fishman Platinum Pro or the Radial Tonebone PZ Pre or PZ Deluxe. I personally use the PZ Deluxe and am very happy with it but I also keep a Baggs Para as a backup and I like it too. All of these have enough power and EQ to be heard loud and clear in a live mix. Often time, many pickups need a cut in the midrange and may need a boost in the bottom or top to be more clear.
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Old 07-18-2017, 11:44 AM
curbucci curbucci is offline
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This one is an excellent choice...

https://www.maurysmusic.com/inc/sdet.../124928/151375
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Old 07-18-2017, 11:55 AM
adaw2821 adaw2821 is offline
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Yea that's part of the trouble. I don't know if I just need a DI. My electronic are active so I assume so. The venue DI is what the were recommending. I'm just trying to figure out if I need all of that or if it's more than what I need. I don't really understand all of the impeadence stuff.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:27 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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If your signal chain is still your A3r into a Boss EQ pedal and then into a Roland acoustic amp, you do not need a DI box, although some of the features on some of the regular suspect DI/preamp units out there might help you with your problem.

Probably the best thing you can do to keep the low frequency resonance from letting the guitar stand out in the context of the ensemble is to cut lows with a shelving EQ or a high pass filter. A preamp with a high pass filter set around 100 Hz (even 200 Hz), for example, might help.

Did I understand you correctly that your friend's guitar has no trouble standing out the way you'd like yours to using the very same amp in the same context?

Maybe one thing you might consider is to ignore the factory system in your guitar and buy one of the same magnetic pickups he has.

L.
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:08 PM
adaw2821 adaw2821 is offline
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Yea the amp was a temporary fix because we only had one 1/4 inch to xlr cable to plug in. I would like to bypass the amp if it's not need. The line out on the amp is 1/4 as well.
Normal it's just guitars into pa. I couldn't tell a noticable difference going into the amp then pa
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:33 PM
jimmorgan jimmorgan is offline
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If your onboard pickup is already active you won't hear that much of a difference running through a DI. I fact you may just be able to run into the 1/4" line input on the mixer, you might have to crank the gain a bit. I don't know the specifics on your on-board preamp but you might want to give that a shot before shelling out for a DI.

If you need to plug into a mic input. Honestly, if you're running through the average church sound system, just buy an inexpensive passive DI and you'll be fine. It is true than an expensive DI with a better transformer will give you a flatter response, but unless you've got high dollar speakers, you aren't going to notice the difference. I might be making an assumption, but I've worked in a lot of churches, and the weak link in the sound is likely to be the speakers, and no amount of money spent on a DI is going to really change that.
-Jim
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:42 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adaw2821 View Post
Yea the amp was a temporary fix because we only had one 1/4 inch to xlr cable to plug in. I would like to bypass the amp if it's not need. The line out on the amp is 1/4 as well.
Normal it's just guitars into pa. I couldn't tell a noticable difference going into the amp then pa
If you're going into a PA mixer directly the advantage of a DI box will be to balance your signal so that you can go through a long length of XLR cable. Your active pickup should be OK through an unbalanced connection for moderate lengths, though (1/4" to 1/4"). Check to see if the mixer has a high pass filter on the input channels and make sure it it engaged. What sort of monitoring are you getting?

Louis
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:43 PM
adaw2821 adaw2821 is offline
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I'm not sure what the monitors are. They are just stage monitor speakers. No personal monitoring.
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:46 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adaw2821 View Post
I'm not sure what the monitors are. They are just stage monitor speakers. No personal monitoring.
Is the sound you're complaining about a problem with the monitor signal you're hearing on stage or a problem in the sound going out to the house?

Do the stage monitors sit on the floor in "wedge" position pointing up at your guitar?

Louis
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:03 PM
adaw2821 adaw2821 is offline
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It's kind of hard to say. The sanctuary is rather small and the monitoring is not great. The monitors are on stands about 5' up. I usually can just hear a bit of monitor and the rest room sounds. I think if not careful the monitors will complete with the main speakers. Maybe I need to look at personal monitoring?

But at the same time my guitar sounds muddy or unclear to me while I can hear his fine and clear.
Sorry but I'm pretty uneducated about amplification..
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  #13  
Old 07-18-2017, 04:43 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adaw2821 View Post
It's kind of hard to say. The sanctuary is rather small and the monitoring is not great. The monitors are on stands about 5' up. I usually can just hear a bit of monitor and the rest room sounds. I think if not careful the monitors will complete with the main speakers. Maybe I need to look at personal monitoring?

But at the same time my guitar sounds muddy or unclear to me while I can hear his fine and clear.
Sorry but I'm pretty uneducated about amplification..
Well, if you can hear him and he's coming to you through the same monitor system (and you like the sound), then probably on that stage you want to try and produce similar sound from your guitar. I'd look first at the kind of magnetic pick up he has and try that first. If you like it, you're done at maybe some pretty minor expense. If not, you can return the pickup and start the more complex and slow process of trying to tweak and/or process the sound of the pickup you have to get it to work in this situation. If you know anyone with experience with live mixing with acoustic guitars, try buy him/her a meal and ask them to come down and see if they can help.

Louis
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:20 PM
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ljguitar ljguitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adaw2821 View Post
…My question is, if I need a DI box, is there a cheaper, simpler option to get the job done? I have an EQ pedal so, to me, I don't need that in a DI box.

I'm wanting to run my Yamaha A3R with built-in modeling and preamp, through a couple of effects, delay reverb, EQ, into a mixer.

I guess I'm looking for sound quality not a lot of features. If I can get that with something else great. If not I'll have to start saving
HI adaw

First of all the store was pointing you toward a preamp with direct box capabilities built into it. The preamp adjusts tone, and the direct box functions match impedance so the signal matches the input of the PA board.

A direct box's primary function is to convert your guitar signal (¼" output from your Yamaha unit) from High Impedance to Low Impedance (XLR/microphone cable) so it will not lose fidelity with long runs. The guitar cable starts losing effectiveness after 20 feet. You may get sound, and get by, but tone suffers.

A simple passive direct box ($25-40) will do the job without sacrificing tone. It will likely also add other useful functions to your rig. The church may already have some/one around if they are interfacing keys to the PA board.

There is no benefit in your situation to buying a $70 or $150 or $200 direct box. Unless you are full-time musician on the road and spending time in studios, you don't need an active direct box.

Go to Amazon and type in the search bar "Passive Direct Box" and look at the Whirlwind, Behringer, Rapco, Hosa etc. in the $20-40 range. Any of them do the same basic job, and all of them will work for you.

Hope this helps…



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  #15  
Old 07-18-2017, 07:15 PM
adaw2821 adaw2821 is offline
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Thanks yes it helps. I'm learning but slowly. So what I'm understanding is I definitely need a DI box. Right now we are using cables that are 1/4" to xlr to plug into the box on the end of the snake. Im also thinking I don't need any of the other options on the more expensive units.
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