Help with high action on Martin

[UglyEarly]

I have a Martin DCPA1 plus that I purchased new about a year and a half ago. I bought it to play live and loved the sound and the way it played. It has served me well for about 50 gigs. I have several others and it rarely gets played unless I'm doing an acoustic gig. It stays in the case and in my climate controlled home. I have about 40 guitars with no action issues. I use light gauge Martin lifespan strings.
My action has been gradually getting higher and lately it is getting way too high.
The neck is straight. It has very little relief, but enough. I have sanded down the saddle once and it was okay for a while. I have other solid wood acoustics by Taylor, Gibson, Breedlove and more that are fine and are in the same environment.
The top has no noticeable bellying. (I had an Ovation years ago that had the top warp and was repaired under warranty).
I really want this back to the way it was. I had to play my Taylor most of my gig last night because my fingers were getting fatigued and it really doesn't have the tone my Martin has plugged in.
The neck geometry seems within spec.
I'm really stumped.
I'm in no way bashing Martin. It is my favorite acoustic plugged in.
I really wish to avoid sending it off and being without it for several months.
Has anyone experienced this?
Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Jeff

[murrmac123]

the neck geometry seems within spec

What measurements have you taken to determine that he neck geometry is within spec?

Since you say that the relief is fine, then there are two, and only two, measurements you need to know in order to determine whether a neck reset is unavoidable (which sounds like it may be the case) ... namely the distance from fret to E string at the 12th fret, and the distance from the soundboard to the underside of the D string right in front of the bridge.

A neck reset being required on an almost new Martin is by no means an unknown phenomenon.

[UglyEarly]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

A neck reset being required on an almost new Martin is by no means an unknown phenomenon.

Seriously? Why?
I could understand on a 50 year old guitar....
Actually, my 60+ year old Gibson doesn't need a neck reset and it has wonderful action.
My 1970's Alvarez still has great action.
My 3 cheap Yamahas that cost under $100 have great action and my kids just throw them around.
This was a $4000 retail Martin!
Are they seriously having common issues with necks needing reset on new Martins?
That is sad....

Jeff

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by UglyEarly

Seriously? Why?

Jeff

Because poop happens. Martin makes 10s of thousands of guitars every year. It's a numbers game. Sometimes Murphy shows up and something goes wrong after the guitar leaves the factory.

The good news is they will make sure it gets fixed. The bad news is it could take a couple of months

[Greg Maxwell]

I set up a brand new Gibson this week that is on the verge of needing a reset. I lowered the nut slots, which were too high, and then lowered the saddle to bring the action at the 12th fret down to spec. The saddle has no more adjustment left, meaning that this guitar will need a neck reset as soon as the action gets too high again. I advised the owner to return it.

If your Martin has a straight neck, a straight edge laid on top of the frets should hit right at the top of the bridge. If it hits low, you may need a reset. If the neck is adjusted correctly and the saddle is as low as it can go, and you still have high action, you probably need a reset. I only say "probably" because the guitar isn't in front of me and I cant tell if anything else is going on.

[murrmac123]

The straight edge method of assessment is fallible, since the fretboard extension can distort the reading, irrespective of how straight the neck appears to be.

If you are using a straightedge, the correct way to use it is to have a dedicated straight edge with a scallop cut out of the section between the body joint fret and the last fret, so that the straightedge makes contact only with the first fret, the body joint fret and the bridge. Even then, it is only a quick and dirty method and takes no account of varying bridge thickness.

I have a 5mm thick polycarbonate straightedge contoured like this ... I hardly ever use it however, I prefer to set the string height at the bridge to exactly 1/2" off of the soundboard, and measure the action at the 12th fret. This, along with a calculator and some basic geometry tells you exactly what you need to know.

[Greg Maxwell]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

The straight edge method of assessment is fallible, since the fretboard extension can distort the reading, irrespective of how straight the neck appears to be.

That is exactly why I gave the caveat at the end of my post, and why I also included advice about saddle height as well. The OP is a player, not an experienced luthier, and the two methods I mentioned will get most guitars in the ballpark most of the time especially when combined.

[Hot Vibrato]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

neck reset being required on an almost new Martin is by no means an unknown phenomenon.

I have a roughly two year old Martin 000-15 in my shop right now that needs a neck reset. The customer bought it new at GC. I told him to take it back to the store and not to accept anything less than a warranty neck reset.



With less than .004" relief, This is string height measurement with the ruler straddling the 12th and 13th frets (capo on first fret):



And this is the saddle height:



As you can see, the saddle would have to be cut down to nothing to allow for a playable action.

[UglyEarly]

Okay, I see examples and after learning more, it appears that my neck geometry is indeed off and my neck is now under-set. I have also noticed some top distortion near the end-pin that may have attributed to this.
This has never happened to any guitar I own. The only thing close was an ADii USA Ovation (another $4000 retail USA made acoustic) a few years back that was repaired under warranty and then sold.
I guess it's going to be another warranty issue.
I hope they honor it.

Thanks, everyone!

Jeff

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by Hot Vibrato

I have a roughly two year old Martin 000-15 in my shop right now that needs a neck reset. The customer bought it new at GC. I told him to take it back to the store and not to accept anything less than a warranty neck reset.

With less than .004" relief, This is string height measurement with the ruler straddling the 12th and 13th frets (capo on first fret):

And this is the saddle height

As you can see, the saddle would have to be cut down to nothing to allow for a playable action.

Wow ... I have seen a few newish Martins that had dodgy action, but that one takes the biscuit ...

[UglyEarly]

Here are pics of what I'm working with.
It's much higher than it was when I bought it.




I'm wondering whether to wait until I'm out of room for adjustment or just go ahead and send it back for repair.

[Hot Vibrato]

Originally Posted by UglyEarly

I'm wondering whether to wait until I'm out of room for adjustment or just go ahead and send it back for repair.

Well, it could be made playable, but you would be left with barely 1/16" of saddle exposure, which certainly isn't much for such a new guitar. I'm honestly not quite sure how bad it has to be before Martin will approve a warranty reset. Would it have to be as egregiously under-set as the one I posted, or would they go ahead and reset a neck on a guitar like this, which is bordering on needing a reset?

[redir]

Saddles are cheap relatively speaking. I'd take that one down to 1/16th and see how you like it. You can't really go any lower then 1/16th and that's even pushing it. But it might be good enough for you and then you can continue gigging and punt the neck reset on down the road for a while.

[Earl49]

Stuff happens. I am two for four on new Martins that needed neck resets in the first year or two. They eventually reset those necks under warranty (it took some pushback from me to make it happen, as they denied it initially). The factory shop will require shipping to / from PA and take 5-8 months to turn it around. You will have better turnaround time with an authorized repair station.

[UglyEarly]

In case anyone was wondering, I finally sent the guitar back to Martin months ago. I received a repair estimate today.
Unfortunately, I am getting some serious push-back. I will let you all know how this ends.
I am still optimistic that Martin will take care of the issue.

Jeff