ToneDexter Thread (continuation of original thread)

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Here is a short track I just recorded with my new Taylor 717e into a Tonedexter file I made yesterday with a Shure SM57.

There has been a bit of negativity towards using the poor old 57, so here I set it straight!. I have used 57s since I was in a blues band and had no money and my girlfriend paid for one when my mic died for my solo Dobro blues set! The one used in the recording below still has my name in blurry marker pen on some masking tape. My piano player friend told me to put my name on it or the others would............

So I have a handful of 57s and just after I got Tonedexter last year and using my Neumann KM184, it occurred to me that the mic used in making the waves could be viewed as you view the mic you choose for a gig if you were a soundie or a pedantic acoustic blues-er. So I will go back many years and tell you a guy who I never knew told me the best mic for live resophonic guitars was a plain old 57. And it was! Perfect for that 'simple' tone.

Now yesterday I made a few new waves on TD with my Neumann KM184 and while playing I was thinking the guitar had too many 'overtones'? and it came out a bit 'hollow' in TD...and maybe I should try the Shure SM57.... Now, a bit of prior knowledge of the 57 foibles helps. Number one is there is no level. Number 2 is the proximity effect.

With the low level, I got a bit of hiss and I always have got this on recording with a 57 unless I used a nice preamp as well - before the inputs. I didn't do this with TD - just turned it up when playing. So a bit of hiss in the background. With the proximity effect, I put the mic back about 18", any further and more level would be needed and ..more hiss.

Tonedexter Character is on full left. The Taylor ES2 sounded great on Bypass with zip, so just a smidgeon of TD gets rid of the small amount of piezo quack. I cut the treble a bit.

What do you think? I played a dud note or 2, otherwise it was heading to be masterpiece!


https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/717e-td01



BluesKing777.

Sounds Great and I Love the ES2!

[Doug Young]

I'm not understanding the noise part. I don't think any mic self-noise should contribute to ToneDexter's training, since it won't correlate to any of the pickup signal. So there wouldn't be any noise from the 57 on the final pickup/TD track. Am I misunderstanding?

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I'm not understanding the noise part. I don't think any mic self-noise should contribute to ToneDexter's training, since it won't correlate to any of the pickup signal. So there wouldn't be any noise from the 57 on the final pickup/TD track. Am I misunderstanding?

No self noise, but a hiss from not having enough level without winding the gain up, a lot. I may just need a new lead, will check, but I have had the problem recording direct with 57s over the years. They were designed and used for very loud sound eg. drumkit, Marshall amp...great for that. But if I recorded an acoustic direct to a recorder, no level! Wind up the gain too much, hiss. The fix is a preferably nice preamp after the mic and before the record input.

I first had a problem playing solo with just the metal reso and a 57, could never get anything. Next was trying to get a level with the old cassette 4 track Teac Portastudio! Fine with a condenser, no level with a 57 and a big hiss. Same when the digital Teac Portastudios came out. (I actually took the recorder back and the guy plugged in some other mic and embarrassingly, no hiss...plenty of level). The nice preamps on my A&H mixer are fine! Wind it up! But in to TD, same hiss. Not awful but there. I bet you if I grabbed a little cheapie preamp out of the shed, an old Behringer tube pre, it would give more level to the 57 BEFORE. The TD....

But I will check my lead.


BluesKing777.

[shufflebeat]

If you have the opportunity, check your '57s against others. I know you have had this experience with '57s in general but I'd like to see some numbers, or at least hear some direct comparisons. There are mics where this is an issue, the Beyer m201 is n example , but the '57 is not usually discussed in those terms.

I have several '57s and they all produce enough signal that s/n ratio is not a consideration, even on relatively quiet sources.

It may be simply that our expectations are very different (or my hearing is shot, but I don't think so). It should be noted that the MartiAudio (Cloudlifter style) preamp works really well with '57s - I have experimented in an idle moment. I didn't think I would actually use the combination but it would certainly improve the situation you describe.

[Kerbie]

Guys, we've exceeded the 300-post limitation which eases strain on the server. So, this thread will be closed... feel free to start the next.