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  #1  
Old 12-01-2020, 07:03 PM
Mattface Mattface is offline
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Default Fixing friends guitar, could use a couple pointers on nut filing and bridge crack

I have a friend at work with a broken Ibanez V70CE guitar. It's a decent looking guitar, but it's got some problems. He doesn't want to spend much on it, but he would like to have it playable, and it seemed like an interesting project to me.

The first part is the nut. It had come off at some point and he glued a new blank reshaped on without any final shaping or filing the slots, so the action was of course quite high. That's pretty straightforward. It popped right off when I pried at it with my pocketknife. I already have it shaped and glued up. I've never filed nut slots, but I figure if I'm careful I should be able to do a good job. The question I have is about tools. I don't really want to invest $85 for the Stewmac nut file set. I don't know when I'll need to do another nut. Can anyone recommend a decent hobbyist level set?



The bridge is another thing. I didn't know about it until I got the guitar in my hands, but it cracked on the treble side of the saddle slot, probably because the saddle was loose. So I've dry fit some clamps and I can see it should clamp up OK, and I'll replace the saddle with a thicker one so it doesn't rock forward. I know ideally the bridge should be replaced, but I don't think this guitar warrants a bridge replacement, and I think it might hold OK if I glue and clamp it well enough. I'm going to need a better clamp setup as this is bound to slip off. My best idea is a pair of wooden blocks, one of them curved to match the bottom of the bridge. I'd welcome suggestions for how to clamp this up better.



Other than that it looks pretty good. Neck looks straight. A straightedge from the neck lands right at the top of the bridge. Not much fret wear, so I think it will play well with a setup once I fix the problems.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:33 PM
redir redir is online now
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It sort of looks like a standard Martin belly bridge. If so I think you can buy a replacement for like $20 bucks and it would be worth it.

Just go to your hardware store and get a standard set of needle files which is what luthiers have done for hundreds of years till someone invented specialized nut files a couple decades ago.

In a set of needle files you will have a knife edge file good for the first 3 strings and a rounded knife edge file for the last three bass strings. You need to roll the file to make a nice U-shaped bottom that fits the string gauge.
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:55 PM
Mattface Mattface is offline
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Quick update on the project:

I got these neat clamps today they work as well as anything might, but I'm concerned gluing this crack may not hold. I'm tempted to drop a little CA glue in the crack, but I know that is probably a mistake. Thing is the crack repair sort of needs to work. The guitar is barey worth $100 in good playable condition, so it's really not worth putting a new bridge on it, and also I can't acomplish that on my kitchen counter with my motley collection of clamps.




The saddle in there was quite tall, and also fairly loose. That and the undersaddle pickup probably contributed to the rocking forward that caused the crack. I picked up an overssized bone blank from Allied Lutherie on my way hone from work and shaped it down to a good snug fit. Once I adjust the height I may glue it in place to hopefully keep it from opening the cracked bridge back up. I know this is probably not a great idea, but I'm hoping my friend can get a few more good years out of this thing, if the saddle needs to come out, chances are it will really need a new bridge and as I mentioned before that's likely not happening on this guitar unless he gains a much greater sentimental attachment to it. So I'm thinking adjusting the action, then gluing the saddle in may actually help keep it from splitting again.




I tried to order needle files online from my locsl hardware store, but they were not in stock. So I roughed in the slots with my pull saw on the bas strings, and a hack saw, and straight razor blade for the high strings. I'll still need to come up with needle files for for the fine tuning.


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Old 12-02-2020, 09:10 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Nice work. This is a good set of nut files if you feel the need to buy them at some time. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Acoustic...g/111480267049
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:35 AM
Mattface Mattface is offline
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  • What are folks thoughts on gluing the saddle in the slot? I know it's not ideal, but I feel like it might help support the saddle better, and thus keep the crack from reopening. OTOH, it might not help at all. With the snug fit, adding glue might actually cause it to crack if the bridge expands with humidification.
  • Now that I've said that I wonder if I should thin the saddle just a little more. I don't want it rocking like the old one, but if it fits too snug I guess it could reopen the crack. How tight is too tight?
  • The crack is glued with Titebond Original. Would a drop fill of CA glue in the crack do anything useful.
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Old 12-03-2020, 10:34 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattface View Post
[*]What are folks thoughts on gluing the saddle in the slot?
Don't.


Quote:
How tight is too tight?
With no under-saddle pickup, a light press fit, enough that the saddle doesn't fall out when the guitar is inverted with no strings on it.

Quote:
Would a drop fill of CA glue in the crack do anything useful.
Not likely. Any gaps left from the Titebond joint will simply be filled with the CA glue, adding no additional strength, being used as a filler, rather than adhesive.

There is no harm in drop filling the Titebond joint with CA glue, but likely no structural benefit either.
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:25 AM
Mattface Mattface is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
Don't.

With no under-saddle pickup, a light press fit, enough that the saddle doesn't fall out when the guitar is inverted with no strings on it.
Thanks for the input. In this case there IS an under-saddle pickup. I think you can see it in the photos. I think that exacerbated the problem with the loose fitting saddle. Does that change the recommended fit?
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:50 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattface View Post
Thanks for the input. In this case there IS an under-saddle pickup. I think you can see it in the photos. I think that exacerbated the problem with the loose fitting saddle. Does that change the recommended fit?
Slightly looser. If the saddle is too tight in the slot, it can prevent the under-saddle transducer from picking up properly. If in doubt, start with tighter than looser. You can always take a swipe or two off with sandpaper to thin it if the transducer isn't picking up correctly: it isn't as easy to put it back on if the saddle is too loose.
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Old 12-04-2020, 06:18 PM
Mattface Mattface is offline
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It came out pretty well. Thanks to everyone who offered advice.




I did find my old set of needle files which came in handy both for slotting the nut and compensating the saddle. The crack held I got the action pretty low (two heavy guitar pics at the 12th) and I'm afraid to push it any lower for fear of fret buzzing. I did polish the frets a bit, but I didn't really try to level them as I don't have the tools for that. Oiled up the rosewood, and put on a new set of Martin Phosphor Bronze Custom Lights. Intonation is not perfect on a couple of strings, but I'm not sure if it's a limitation of my skills or the guitar and I don't want to sand any more bone off the saddle for fear of making it worse.



All told I've got $8.50 into it counting the strings, but not counting the clamps which I needed anyway. I had a fun project and got some cool experience, and my friend gets a playable guitar. So I'm pretty psyched.

Now here's a line of bone dust for all you saddle sniffers.

#kitchencounterluthier
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2020, 06:26 PM
Mattface Mattface is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
Slightly looser. If the saddle is too tight in the slot, it can prevent the under-saddle transducer from picking up properly. If in doubt, start with tighter than looser. You can always take a swipe or two off with sandpaper to thin it if the transducer isn't picking up correctly: it isn't as easy to put it back on if the saddle is too loose.
Thanks I left it quite snug, because I don't think anyone is really going to use the pickup anyway. Even though I know it it would probably sound better without it under the saddle, it feels wrong to yank it out and leave in the 2 useless plastic barn doors. SO I left it intact.
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  #11  
Old 12-04-2020, 06:35 PM
redir redir is online now
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LOL **** man, that one pick bought me back to a former self a long long time ago. Something that building guitars saved me from hahahahah.
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