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  #1  
Old 01-09-2018, 05:48 AM
theflink theflink is offline
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Default Playing live gigs with my new Acoustic Amp... I need help :s

Hey everyone!

Recently bought myself a Fishman Loudbox Artist and a Shure SM58 to go with it.

I've played live plenty of times before, but this is going to be the first time I'm on my own in making it sound good...

And, well.... Im completely lost


Low, Mid, High..... Whenever I go online to read about it, all I can find are people talking about frequencies and to turn it down this and that many Hz etc... But my amp says nothing about that. It has a knob, and no indication whatsoever about what "number" it is or anything. All I have are my ears, and I'm just finding it very difficult to get it sounding right.

It's almost worse with the microphone for singing. I have absolutely no idea what it's supposed to be at.

Worst part is, it's probably all dependant on your guitar, and on your playstyle, and on what type of voice you have.

Can you guys lend a hand?

Just for good measure: I play a Norman B20 with an in-guitar K&K pick-up....

Also, how the heck are you supposed to connect it to a PA. My old system was really easy to use so as you can see, i'm very confused by this
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2018, 07:18 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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First, set up in a room at home (plug both mic and guitar in) and start messing around with the controls to hear what each one does. Ideally, get a friend in who can tell you what sounds best after you've adjusted things.

You probably need to do a lot of reading, it sounds like you're lost about things like tone/EQ.
Low - bass frequencies (small Hz number - Hz is frequency, cycles per second)
Mid - frequencies where most of the guitar and vocal tones are (200-1000 Hz)
Hi - treble frequencies, where the higher notes and sound is, this is the range that allows sound to cut through other noises and give some 'air' (>1000Hz)

Start with all the tone controls in the center position on the amp. Listen to the sound of yoru guitar when played thorugh it - does it sound balanced, or too much bass, or too shrill? Adjust the tone controls to change the sound.
Same thing with your vocal mic. Then with both together, how does it balance? This is where having someone else listen and comment will help.

the Loudbox has an XLR "Mix/DI" output jack on the back panel - this is where a cable would be plugged in to run to a PA system. It also has separate channel 1 and channel 2 DI outs if you wanted to send the mic and the guitar to separate PA channels.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:44 AM
ChrisE ChrisE is offline
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Not to complicate things, but the venue you're playing also has an effect. What usually happens is that you experiment at home and get things dialed in and then when you show up to play everything sounds completely different than it did at home.

I don't know anything about the various hz and all that, but I've generally found that if your guitar sounds harsh or brittle, try turning the mids down. And too much bass (lows) can cause feedback.
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Old 01-09-2018, 12:53 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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It's all about how it sounds to YOU... so don't get all caught up in what hz., etc...

Set up your amp at home and give yourself some space between you and the unit, for two reasons - one, you wll hear how it sounds more clearly, and two, close proximity to an amplifying device is the quickest way to have issues with feedback...
(you will want to remember point #2 when you set up for a live gig. Try to keep the amp away from the body of your guitar as much as possible...)

Connecting to a an external PA should be as easy as running a cord between your amp's "direct out" or DI out to a channel on the mixer of the PA. You will probably want an additional XLR>XLR cable for this... the DI out lets you run as long a cable as you want/need without losing signal from the distance.

A good rule of thumb is to ALWAYS let your ears be the judge of how it sounds... I would suggest starting with all the tone knobs set at "flat" or at the 12 o'clock position, and go from there. If your amp has a "trim" or input gain control, set that FIRST before turning up the master volume. Google "gain staging" and read up on it; the information will serve you well, no matter what amps or PA's you use in the future...

Don't make it harder than it is; may sound confusing with all the hertz and frequencies and knobs to turn, but remember, it all comes down to what YOU want to hear!

Let us know how it goes...
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:19 PM
jimmorgan jimmorgan is offline
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Honestly, don't stress over it. My philosophy for EQ is that it's best used for solving problems. No problems, no need to use the EQ. I think half the time we fall into the trap of thinking that just because we have a knob on our amp we've got to use it for something. If you plug your guitar and mic in and fire it up and everything sounds good, then don't even touch it, later you'll have to time to tweak to your heart's desire, but first you've got to establish what "good" sounds like to you playing live in the first place.
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Old 01-09-2018, 04:09 PM
gfsark gfsark is offline
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I agree with the “don’t stress out.” Plug the guitar in in the left channel mic in the right channel, leave all the knobs at 12 O’Clock high, and see how it sounds. A tiny bit of reverb maybe. No chorus. The Fishman will sound great with those settings.

Do practice your entire gig from start to finish with your rig, in your home with your mic and guitar plugged in. If there’s a PA, the sound guy will have a cord to plug into your amp.
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:56 AM
Finger Stylish Finger Stylish is offline
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I have the Mini, Artist & Performer and use them all in live gigs;
I have recently added 2 EV ZLX 12P to use from the DI out on the fishmans
As far as the EQ I have never had the Mid dial past 9oClock. The Mid gain on the Fishman products sound terrible to my ear. Takes the clean clarity of the Combo amp away. A typical EQ set for my Fishman's are
(referencing a clock dial)
Vocal Channel
Low @ 1:45
Mid @ 8:55
High @ 2:30
Reverb @ 9:15 (Fishman Reverb can be over the top)
Guitar
Low @ 12:00
Mid @ zero, zilch, nada!
High @ 3:15
Reverb @ none to 9:15 depending on the chamber/hall I'm playing
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2018, 03:03 AM
Marty C Marty C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Stylish View Post
I have the Mini, Artist & Performer and use them all in live gigs;
I have recently added 2 EV ZLX 12P to use in the DI out
As far as the EQ I have never had the Mid dial past 9oClock. The Mid gain on the Fishman products sound terrible to my ear. Takes the clean clarity of the Combo amp away. A typical EQ set for my Fishman's are
(referencing a clock dial)
Vocal Channel
Low @ 1:45
Mid @ 8:55
High @ 2:30
Reverb @ 9:15 (Fishman Reverb can be over the top)
Guitar
Low @ 12:00
Mid @ zero, zilch, nada!
High @ 3:15
Reverb @ none to 9:15 depending on the chamber/hall I'm playing
Good advice. I have the LB Mini and using it a lot lately. I find the same with the mids and the reverb. I just looked at the manual yesterday and they show the mids at lower settings as the volume gets turned up.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:04 AM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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Good morning. This is one of those questions that we wish had a standard answer. But there just isn’t.

Just for reference, the frequencies on your guitar break down like this:

80hz is the fundamental of your lowest string in standard tuning. There are rumbles in your guitar that will be lower than that.

160hz is the E note on your D string.

320hz is the fundamental of your high string.

So, if your Bass knob is centered at 120hz, you can see that you are effecting the fundamentals of half your guitar.

Everything else is harmonic. Mid knobs on amps vary from 400hz to 1000hz. I didn’t look up yours but it should be on the specs. The Treble knob can be anywhere from 8000hz to 10,000hz.

So what does all of this tell you? Nothing. Just gives you reference when you see the specs. Breaks down to this: It’s generally better to take away then to add. When your guitar is set flat and you play your guitar ask your self is it too boomy? If so, turn the bass knob down, not add treble. When you feel the three lowest strings sound natural you are there. Obviously, if your guitar sound bright, thin and weak you can always add bass. I am betting that you will have to leave there or take some away. Then ask yourself does the guitar sound harsh or hard? If so turn the Mids down a bit. Experiment with what effect that knob has by turning it all the way up and down. Your ear will learn and you will find the place that sounds right. Chances are it will be at 12:00 or lower. Then you are left with giving your guitar the right amount of bite or brightness, adjust up or down accordingly.

Good luck.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2018, 09:44 AM
JakeStone JakeStone is offline
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OK.. Well we all been there.

Every venue and room is different. It is difficult to totally advise how to "dial" in good sound. So much has to do with the room and it's acoustics. Plus an empty room sounds completely different than one full of people and noise.

* With that said, If you are solo, then having a friend help is a good start... You can have them stand out in the room and give you advice on volume etc.

* Read the manual. (I know .. you prob already did) ,, But usually I read through each section several times.

I assume you are plugging the Guitar into Ch 1 and Mic in #2?

ME? I would start off with no effects and everything at 12 noon or "Flat".... use the 2 Channel volume controls to get a proper balance ... Then the Master volume for your mixed output volume and go from there.

If it sounds like a "tin can" then take away some highs/treble. If your voice or guitar is too punchy ... Take out some of their mids. Too boomy/bass then take out some bass. This is just general ..... ADD a tiny amount of reverb to add a little depth and air.

It's simple to plug into the PA.... Take the DI OUT via a MIC (XLR) Cable. This will take the amp mix out to the PA Mixer.

OR..... you can take the separate Channel 1 and 2 out ...
This would be dry or without any of the amp's effects.





Quote:
Originally Posted by theflink View Post


Low, Mid, High.....

It's almost worse with the microphone for singing. I have absolutely no idea what it's supposed to be at.

Worst part is, it's probably all dependant on your guitar, and on your playstyle, and on what type of voice you have.

Can you guys lend a hand?

Just for good measure: I play a Norman B20 with an in-guitar K&K pick-up....

Also, how the heck are you supposed to connect it to a PA. My old system was really easy to use so as you can see, i'm very confused by this
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:30 AM
ChrisE ChrisE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Stylish View Post
I have the Mini, Artist & Performer and use them all in live gigs;
I have recently added 2 EV ZLX 12P to use from the DI out on the fishmans
As far as the EQ I have never had the Mid dial past 9oClock. The Mid gain on the Fishman products sound terrible to my ear. Takes the clean clarity of the Combo amp away. A typical EQ set for my Fishman's are
(referencing a clock dial)
Vocal Channel
Low @ 1:45
Mid @ 8:55
High @ 2:30
Reverb @ 9:15 (Fishman Reverb can be over the top)
Guitar
Low @ 12:00
Mid @ zero, zilch, nada!
High @ 3:15
Reverb @ none to 9:15 depending on the chamber/hall I'm playing
I'm having a little trouble with your clock readings. A clock has two hands. One for the hour and one for the minute. 3 oclock, 12 oclock, 6 oclock I can understand. Where is 1:45? I guess 3/4 of the way between one and two?
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:19 PM
JakeStone JakeStone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
I'm having a little trouble with your clock readings. A clock has two hands. One for the hour and one for the minute. 3 oclock, 12 oclock, 6 oclock I can understand. Where is 1:45? I guess 3/4 of the way between one and two?
Ya....I was curious about that too.
Mids 8:55 ?
Why not simplify it to 9 o'clock
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:55 PM
Finger Stylish Finger Stylish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
I'm having a little trouble with your clock readings. A clock has two hands. One for the hour and one for the minute. 3 oclock, 12 oclock, 6 oclock I can understand. Where is 1:45? I guess 3/4 of the way between one and two?
The clock face is a visual reference.
Forget about the 2nd/minute hand. It is an approximation of where the hour hand would be. Just trying to give you a visual picture. I certainly wouldn't expect your dials to be set exactly like anyone else's.
Sorry it confused you. That's an old school reference I guess.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:16 PM
JakeStone JakeStone is offline
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OP .. Be sure to check out the user's manual...



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Old 01-10-2018, 01:23 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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A couple of things worth adding here:

1) It does take a while to get your ear attunded to what the various EQ settings do to your signal, so be patient with yourself while you tweak and play, tweak and play.

2) Luckily, the EQ settings on the Artist are fairly simply, only affecting the levels of the frequencies around 3 fixed points. The frequency settings on the amp's EQ controls are are as follows:

Low: ±12.5dB @ 50Hz (mostly affecting boomy sounds below the fundamental of your low E string)
Mid: ±10.5dB @ 750Hz (very much a low midrange control--this is an area of the frequency range that many--but not all--pickups don't reproduce very naturally, and so it's common for people to cut at least a little here)
High: ±12.5dB @ 15kHz (will affect the brightness and "airiness" of your sound)

When the knobs are at 12:00 ("0"), nothing is cut or boosted. The levels of the frequencies around those points will be raised or lowered depending on how far to either the right or left you turn the knobs.

3) Don't forget that your Artist has a tweeter level control in addition to the EQ. It can cut up to 6bd from the sound of the tweeter, which covers the frequencies above 3.5 kHz. So, it can have a powerful effect on how the upper and upper mid frequencies sound (in fact on the balance of your whole sound). So, be aware of where it's set and don't forget to play around with it, too. I found for example that I had to set that control around 11:00 to get the balance of high and low that sounded best to me--particularly for vocals. Having the the control all the way to the right sends the tweeter the full part of the power it's supposed to get for whatever the master volume setting is. Full left drops that down 6db, which takes away a lot of brightness. Some people use that setting for a mellow "jazz box" sort of sound on guitar.

4) There's also a an anti-feedback control, which is essentially a cut across a very narrow range of frequencies that can be moved around in the lower range to stop low-frequency feedback. Make sure that control is off when you're working on your EQ. It can affect the lower end of your sound. You might need it in a gigging situation to get more gain before feedback, but it's a compromise you don't want to make until you have to, and you should arrive at your base-line settings with that control off. Later, you can play around with it to see how it affects things. Some people actually use it for tone shaping when they don't need it for feedback control.

5) The sound of the amp will be affected by whether it's flat on the floor, tilted up on the floor, on a stand or table, near a wall or corner, etc.. So, keep that in mind, too. General rule of thumb: on the floor and near walls--and especially corners--will increase the bass. Tilting it up--and especially putting it up on a stand--will reduce the bass. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the sound you're trying to achieve and the space you're trying to cover. Corners, especially, can increase the bass to the point at which feedback becomes a problem.

Hope all that helps!

Louis
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