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  #16  
Old 04-05-2020, 02:56 PM
Gottaplay Gottaplay is offline
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More often then not I believe that our influences dictate out playing styles. In my case when first getting into fingerpicking I worked on Bruce Cockburn and Mark Knopfler songs from books and magazines and in doing so learned alternating thumbpicking with my pinky anchored down. I never got really good but the point is now I have a hard time being accurate or quick unless I`m anchored down. Molly Tuttle's accuracy and speed with her floating style is amazing. As a mere mortal I find it difficult to emulate that style and when I do it's not pretty. Wish I had worked on that floating technique earlier but I think that ship has sailed.

So are we better off getting good at a fewer number of techniques or broadening our skill set possibly at the cost of proficiency? Now that I`m trying to learn crosspicking I find I automatically return to anchoring down. Trouble is my picking hand often creeps towards the soundhole and one of the hardest skills I struggle with is repositioning my picking hand on the fly without messing up. Or my pinky goes south of the 1st string so far that my pick reach when going for the bass strings gets strained. I can see my Molly's style would take a lot of time and effort to master and how it would allow an unrestricted range of motion. Then again some crosspickers can constantly and very lightly glide their pinkies around thus allowing their reach/pick stroke to be unrestricted like say Bryan Sutton.

Maybe the answer lies on where you want to take your music. If you're like me and you want to to play many other people's music and those people play different techniques then practice those techiques concurrently. I want to learn to play more like some of my guitar heroes Doc Watson, Bruce Cockburn, myriad fiddle tunes on guitar, yada yada. When I watch Joni or Molly it's utterly amazing the sound they get but I can't see myself investing the time or effort to get that good.

So maybe it's really a question of age, willingness, skill level and ultimately determination.
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  #17  
Old 04-05-2020, 03:27 PM
_Tachyon_ _Tachyon_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottaplay View Post
More often then not I believe that our influences dictate out playing styles. In my case when first getting into fingerpicking I worked on Bruce Cockburn and Mark Knopfler songs from books and magazines and in doing so learned alternating thumbpicking with my pinky anchored down.
It was the same for me when first getting into fingerstyle... I emulated Cockburn's pinky anchor, but then as time when on and I was getting into other fingerstyle like Kottke, I gradual stopped using the pinky and now since then have been a floater. Cockburn has this habit of "bouncing" his hand up and down slightly with the beat sometimes, and I did that when using the pinky anchor but now I do it floating.
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  #18  
Old 04-05-2020, 08:43 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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Whatever works for you is ok.

In many situations there is a lot to be said for the stability achieved from planting.

And there are many ways of planting:

- pinky on the soundboard.

- pinky or ring finger on the 1st string, or sometimes on the second or 3rd string.

- thumb on the soundboard

- thumb on the 6th string, OR on whichever string it will play next, OR if you are playing a thumb rest stroke, leave the thumb resting on the string adjacent to the string that was just played - e.g., if you just plucked the 6th string, leave your thumb planted on the 5th string.

- if you use rest strokes, sometimes it is advantageous to leave whichever finger just played a rest stroke on the string that it rested on.

- palm on the bridge, either muting some or all strings or no strings.

- thumb or ring finger or pinky planted on the neck of the guitar when using right hand fingers to tap a note.

Last edited by ceciltguitar; 04-05-2020 at 08:48 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-06-2020, 06:07 PM
Pitar Pitar is offline
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The formal Classical method taught is to loosely hover over the strings never anchoring anywhere. If you want to play and appear to be right to that audience, that's the way to do it. No Classical, or Flamenco guitarist anchors because it inhibits full extension of the fingers, the correct deflection of the strings and remains the most flexible position for the hand. By virtue of anchoring, you minimize that advantage.

In a recent interview I saw with Tommy Emmanuel, he said he anchors because so-and-so did/does it and that's proof that anchoring is good. That's an excuse for not learning a better way. Technique going back through time has been the same for Classical and Flamenco playing and over that period no one yielded to a lesser dogma.

That's the purist aspect of plucking hand technique, but that has been compromised in the general sense that people want to play and any port in the storm is fine for them. Good technique has become subordinate to playing music in a git'r'done dismissal of technique where results overrule good form. You can have both down well, or you can ultimately end up limiting yourself.
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  #20  
Old 04-11-2020, 08:44 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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“ The formal Classical method taught is to loosely hover over the strings never anchoring anywhere. If you want to play and appear to be right to that audience, that's the way to do it. No Classical, or Flamenco guitarist anchors because it inhibits full extension of the fingers, the correct deflection of the strings and remains the most flexible position for the hand. By virtue of anchoring, you minimize that advantage.“

I used to believe that too. Until I studied Flamenco with someone who studied directly with some of the top Flamenco guitarists in Spain back in the 1960s, and he taught me that Thumb plant is essential to Flamenco technique.

All the techniques that I mentioned, and probably more, are used by top Classical, Flamenco and Fingerstyle guitarists today. And there are also those who play with the approach that Pitar mentioned.

Experiment! Find what works for you. Don’t be afraid to try new approaches, new techniques. Always seek economy of motion, hand stability, and ease of play with musical results.
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  #21  
Old 04-12-2020, 07:36 PM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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Excellent players do it both ways. But to my thinking a planted pinkie does several things I'd rather not have happen:

First, over time it wears off the finish. You are also hindering the complete vibration of the top and in an important spot as well. And you cannot bring your hand closer to or further from the bridge if you are planted in one spot.

I am sure there are also advantages to planting, only I am not currently aware of them.
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  #22  
Old 04-13-2020, 04:52 AM
JonPR JonPR is online now
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I play in various fingerpicking styles, and I use something close to the classical position most of the time.

Sometimes in folk and blues I'll rest the side of my hand on the bridge, but fairly gently - unless I want the damped bass style of blues or country. (I resist the term "Travis style", because it's often used to cover styles or positions he didn't use himself, so it's never clear what people mean.)

I don't use a thumb-pick, but my thumbnail is long and strong enough to still pick the bass strings when I rest my palm.

Obviously the classical floating position is ideal for being able to pick at different places along the string, and for general maximum mobility of that hand. The problem for those learning it (IME) is to be able to keep your hand steady at all times and only move the fingers. It can be learned by resting the thumb on 6th while picking with fingers only, or resting fingers (on their respective strings) while picking with the thumb.

Of the two kinds of anchoring, the pinky on the scratchplate also keeps the handy steady - close to classical position - while not inhibiting hand movement too much. Merle Travis himself anchored middle-ring-pinky all together on the scratchplater, which obviously fixed his position, but clearly didn't inhibit his playing too much. Then again, it kind of defined the sound of his playing, in its fixed timbral range. He would also rest the palm on the bridge for damping the bass.

Resting the palm or wrist (generally the heel of the hand) on or near the bridge is the other kind of anchor, and is obviously required if one is going to play in any of the damped-bass styles. Classical players would really frown on this because of how it inhibits the movement of the bridge or the top and therefore affects the tone and volume of the instrument. (Resting the pinky below the strings has less of an effect.) That's less of an issue in folk, blues and country styles of course, where guitars may be amplified or close-miked, and the subtleties of classical tone are irrelevant.

Some people using a floating position will occasionally rest an unused finger on the 1st string if it's not being played, again to help steady the hand.
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  #23  
Old 04-13-2020, 07:47 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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“ And you cannot bring your hand closer to or further from the bridge if you are planted in one spot.”

Sure you can move your hand closer or further to or from the bridge while a finger (usually pinky or ring finger) is planted on either the soundboard or on a string. Just slide the planted finger in whichever direction you want to move your hand.
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  #24  
Old 04-13-2020, 08:03 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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Here are some links to some traditional classical guitar Right hand planting techniques:

https://douglasniedt.com/Tech_Tip_Ri...Arpeggios.html

https://www.classicalguitar.org/2009...tial-planting/

https://classicalguitarmagazine.com/...and-dexterity/
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  #25  
Old 04-14-2020, 04:42 AM
Mr Picky Mr Picky is offline
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I've never consciously thought about this until reading these types of forum discussions.

I fingerpick 99% of the time, I use a combination of thumb and 3 fingers with no particular rules. Watching myself back, my main setup is not anchored and my hand floats over the soundhole. However, if I'm playing part of an arrangement where my third finger is not being used, particularly focused on the upper strings, I tend to anchor my little finger and/or my third finger too. But this is dynamic and changes continuously throughout the song....

The first example would be just 16 seconds into this video, with a good close up at 2:20 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuLp79W8CMo

Also if I'm playing a barre chord, or partial barre chord that doesn't involve my second finger, I also tend to park that finger on top of the barre out the way...

It should be noted that I do have fingers like ET.
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Last edited by Mr Picky; 04-14-2020 at 04:50 AM.
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  #26  
Old 04-14-2020, 04:49 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillendreher View Post
So I just noticed something: I was trying to get back into some The Tallest Man On Earth songs - which I had learned how to play in 2012 or so - and noticed that my picking hand was sort of hovering above the soundhole. I never paid any real attention to this, but once I saw this, I thought back to a Molly Tuttle video I saw a couple of months ago in which she explicitly put her picking hand on top of the bridge (pins). I tried this today and it felt a bit unfamiliar, yet it also prevented me from hitting the string with my thumbnail even though I didn't want to (I'm sure you know what I mean).

Which brings me to my question: Where do you put your hand? Is there a right way to do it? Is there a wrong way to do it? I taught myself how to play guitar, so I never really had anybody look at my hand placement or whatever...
molly Tuttle is a great, gifted musician, but i find her picking hand position unnatural ...for me. Whether flat-picking or figer picking the middle, ring and pinky fingers flap about dong nothing but providing a counter weight. No, I don't intend to touch the guitar with them, but when polishing my guitars I do see evidence that the pinky nail sometimes touches the pick-guard. Well something does, and it surely isn't my picks!
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  #27  
Old 04-14-2020, 08:29 AM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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Mr. Picky said “But this is dynamic and changes continuously throughout the song....”

YES! It’s fine for finger and / or thumb planting and anchoring to be a changing dynamic process as the hands and fingers move, always naturally providing maximum stability and economy of movement.

And sometimes best results are achieved by NOT anchoring or planting. It all depends on the finger dynamics of each individual passage, and sometimes there is more than one good way to successfully plant / anchor (or not) to best play any given passage.
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