The Great Cargo Truss Rod Poll

[rlgph]

As can be seen in the Peavy buys CA thread, there is some controversy about whether the carbon fiber Cargo should be redesigned to incorporate a truss rod. What do you think?

P.S. I can't seem to modify the poll options, but my intention in the second and third options was "even if it cost more or made the neck heavier relative to the body."

[Brackett Instruments]

Public perception is the only reason I use an adjustable truss rod in the guitars I build. Martin didn't use adjustable truss rods until 1985. A Cargo certainly doesn't need an adjustable truss rod.

[Huckleberry]

I don't think a Cargo could have a truss rod, the neck is hollow. I don't see how a truss rod could be used to alter the relief, as the tube won't bend in the same way as a solid rod, and a solid CF neck would be very heavy and almost completely rigid. There may be another engineering solution, but I don't think it's a truss rod.

[gitnoob]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I don't think a Cargo could have a truss rod, the neck is hollow. I don't see how a truss rod could be used to alter the relief, as the tube won't bend in the same way as a solid rod, and a solid CF neck would be very heavy and almost completely rigid. There may be another engineering solution, but I don't think it's a truss rod.

Right -- this was mentioned in the other thread. Carbon fiber necks are too stiff for a truss rod to work.

However, I believe Rainsong guitars have truss rods. They also have attached necks (vs the CA/Emerald unibody design). So I assume the truss rod in a Rainsong might work by altering the neck angle at the neck block, but I really have no idea. Maybe they have less rigid necks.

[Larry Pattis]

The difference in string-tension between lights and mediums causes a Cargo neck to have more bow.

This fact, in and of itself, is proof that there is flexibility in the Cargo neck system...and that this additional relief, if unwanted, could be removed with an adjustable truss-rod.

P.S. A "public opinion" poll is an interesting thing, but irrelevant to me. A better "poll" to take, IMO, is that of the qualified techs and set-up people in shops that carried the CA product.

[patticake]

i can't see that a truss rod would do anything. the guitars are made out of carbon fiber fabric and basically epoxy. epoxy isn't flexible at all, and my understanding is that it would be more likely to break than bend if you did add a truss rod and were able to get it to move the neck. chances are it wouldn't do anything - carbon fiber is very stiff and hard.

btw, i find my cargo very comfortable to play. if i could do adjustments, i wouldn't.

[Doubleneck]

What absolutely amazes me is the attention that Cargo gets. Some call it the centerpiece of the CA line. It is meant to be their low end travel guitar. I visited a great guitar store in Chicago that had the entire line to play two years ago. I thought the Cargo interesting but nor for me, spent most of my time on their full size top of the line products. I certainly hope Peavey doesn't make it the center of their offering, with or without a truss rod. Not that it is not a great niche product, but the centerpiece?
Steve

[gitnoob]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Not that it is not a great niche product, but the centerpiece?

How important is that niche? Probably everybody who plays the guitar has thought about a travel guitar.

I bought mine on a whim -- I wanted it for a sailing trip. Figured it would be a novelty and I'd sell it after sailing. But I pretty much found it indispensable. It's amazing how often I can use a portable guitar that sounds pretty good and is impervious to the elements, baggage handlers, kids, dogs, etc.

If I had to pare down to only two guitars, one would be wood, and the other would be the Cargo.

[tbeltrans]

OK, after thinking about this truss thing for a while, I have a solution.

Peavey/CA should make the Cargo with a "removable" truss rod. If the truss rod is not in, then you can store a (short) pool cue (or similarly shaped device) in the neck of the Cargo. That opens up a whole new market. For the professional pool player who has everything - a new and novel pool stick case that doubles as a guitar while waiting for your shot.

Now, everybody can be happy. You can have the Cargo with/without truss rod or with/without pool cue (or similarly shaped item of your choice). It would be a great place to store rolls of bills when travelling (unless somebody nabs the Cargo and makes a run for it). We won't even go into the uses for drug smugglers.



Tony

[Larry Pattis]

Perhaps some folks missed this from the Peavey thread:

Originally Posted by Rick Turner

I guess I'm the only one here with both guitar setup experience and a history in designing and manufacturing carbon fiber instrument parts...necks.

<<snip neck-angle discussion>>

D) The need for a truss rod has nothing to do with neck strength or stiffness and everything to do with adjusting neck relief to each player's taste. Once again, I'll make the automobile analogy. Would you buy a car with a non-adjustable driver's seat?

E) Hartley will bring a very disciplined workforce, and efficient factory, and deep pockets to this project. He cannot do much, though, about the raw materials costs which are quite high. He's also in the business to make money and he won't sell guitars as a loss leader to get market share. He'd probably also like to have the technology to make carbon fiber necks for his electrics. Good move on his part. He's also been an incredibly staunch supporter of independent music stores and backs his dealers like nobody in the biz.

As usual, the foe of knowledge is not ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance.

[Jeff M]

Thinking of starting a poll "do shoes need to come in a size other than 10 D?"
Those with size 10D feet will say no. They are fine.

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

As usual, the foe of knowledge is not ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance.

Better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.
The problem is, if the candle don't want to be lit................

[gitnoob]

It's just a poll, folks. No need to insinuate that people are ignorant or wish to stay that way.

It just might be possible that some people really see no need to adjust the relief on their Cargo -- ever.

[Jeff M]

Originally Posted by gitnoob

...

It just might be possible that some people really see no need to adjust the relief on their Cargo -- ever.

Agree.
10 D happens to be my shoe size.
I see no need to buy other sized shoes.---ever.
But I certainly see why others would.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Jeff M

Agree.
10 D happens to be my shoe size.
I see no need to buy other sized shoes.---ever.
But I certainly see why others would.

Yep! Pretty much what I was saying in another thread, but you said it more succinctly - nice job!

Tony

[gitnoob]

Originally Posted by Jeff M

Agree.
10 D happens to be my shoe size.
I see no need to buy other sized shoes.---ever.
But I certainly see why others would.

I view it more like one-size-fits-all socks. Most people will love them. The few with clown feet won't.